Webinar Transcript: The Digital SAT vs. The ACT
Elton Lin
(This is a transcript of a webinar from August 2024, a recording of which you can find on our YouTube channel. Thank you again to Ivy Method Tutors for co-hosting this webinar with us!)
Michael Robin: Hello, everybody! We’re so glad all of you are joining us this evening. My name is Michael Robin; I’m one of the co-founders of Ivy Method Tutors along with Peyton McDavitt.
Peyton McDavitt: Hi! I’m going to be handling the Q&A and monitoring the chat tonight.
Michael Robin: And joining us tonight as well is Elton Lin, CEO of ILUMIN Education, who’s going to introduce himself further in a moment.
But we’re here tonight to talk about one of my personal all-time favorite topics: testing. Really! I know, I’m a big nerd, what can I say? But we field a lot of questions about these exams—especially this year, in a transition year. People ask us: “Should I take the SAT or ACT? What can I expect on the new digital SAT? And where do my scores play in college admissions?” Tonight, we’re going to answer all of these questions and more.
But first, by way of introduction: I am—again—co-founder of Ivy Method Tutors. I’m an alumnus of both Harvard and Teach for America, and I used to be a former admissions interviewer for Harvard as well. I’ve tutored the SAT and ACT for over 20 years, so I’ve seen many, many, many changes to these tests—particularly the SAT, which—it seems like, roughly every five, seven years, they do a big overhaul, and this is just the most recent one. And we have pretty strong opinions about these overhaul years, and pretty strong opinions about this particular year, and this particular new test, which we’re going to get into pretty deeply in just a moment.
At Ivy Method, we’ve helped students to gain as much as 10 points on ACT and 300 points on SAT using a variety of tools and strategies, which we teach all of our kids. These tests are gameable, and we want students to have the tools they need to be successful on these exams.
Elton!
Elton Lin: Thanks, Michael.
My name is Elton Lin, and I’m the CEO and founder of ILUMIN Education. I’ve been doing private college advising for almost fifteen years, started ILUMIN Education ten years ago. We work with anywhere between 300 to 350 students a year, submit around 2,000 applications a year. Our students have been admitted to every Top 50 university, including every Ivy League multiple times, and—happy to share whatever experience and/or insight we’ve gained along the way, especially as it relates to this floating landscape of testing.
And as confusing as it’s been, and with all the changes that have been happening… excited to get into it with Michael and Peyton, and happy to share whatever we’ve learned.
Michael Robin: All right, let’s go full screen! Let’s go to the slides.
So there’s going to be a lot of information here, but don’t worry: all of this will be recorded, we’ll send it out afterwards. And if you have questions, please put them in the Q&A; we’ll go through all the questions in the Q&A at the end of the presentation.
Overview
The Role of Testing in the College Process
The Digital SAT & PSAT
The ACT
What’s a “Good Score”?
Q&A
Michael Robin: But before we dig into the content, let’s just talk about the arc of this evening, and a bit of an overview.
The first thing I’m going to talk about is—and Elton’s going to talk about more—is the role of testing overall in the college process; how are these tests used by colleges? Then we’re going to get into some specifics on the digital SAT and PSAT. We’re going to highlight the differences a little bit between the old test, but mostly focus on the new test. Then we’re going to talk a bit more about the ACT and our opinions on those two tests. Elton will speak a little bit about what a good score is, and then at the end, we’ll have room for that Q&A.
So let’s jump in.
1) The Role of Tests in the College Process
Michael Robin: What is the role of these tests in the college process, and how has it changed recently?
Standardized testing is just one of many factors that go into college admission, right? Colleges are looking at good grades and rigorous courses; they’re looking, yes, at your standardized test scores; they’re looking at extracurriculars; they’re looking at essays; they’re looking at your interviews; they’re looking at your summer activities, if you’ve done research; they’re looking at huge number of things. So, you know, test scores aren’t going to get you into a dream school; you need to have all of these ducks in a row.
But test scores can help, and—you know, depending on the school, if it’s a hyper, hyper competitive college, it becomes much harder to get in without the test scores.
Tests and the College Process
Testing went optional during Covid
But admissions really valued that data point
Test scores are the best predictor of college GPAs
If your student is applying to competitive colleges:
You should test
EVEN if they say they’re “test optional”
Michael Robin: This hasn’t always been true in recent years. So some of you know: testing went optional during COVID. Some of you may have children with older siblings who didn’t have to go through this process. But for a number of years, testing had been optional. And admissions realized in the last year or so that they really valued the data point of testing. Testing—you know, Dartmouth and a handful of other colleges did research studies and found that test scores were a better predictor of college success at their universities and a student’s college GPA than anything else.
So what this meant is that a lot of hyper competitive colleges, and even just not that competitive—you know, competitive but not 3%, more like 10% admit rate colleges—changed from being test-optional to either requiring testing or expecting testing this year.
So if you’re applying to competitive colleges, we recommend you should test.
“Test Optional” doesn’t really mean test optional
Michael Robin: Even if a school says it’s test-optional, the truth is that, even in the years when schools were calling themselves test-optional, it didn’t really mean test-optional. There was a context to this test-optional piece.
What we’ve seen in practice is that students who submitted good scores with respect to schools that were “test-optional” fared way better with admissions than students who did not submit scores; those kids that actually went through the process, did well, and used the scores got in at much higher rates amongst the student body we work with.
And the truth is—the way I think about this—even in the years when it was test-optional, whereas now we’re moving back towards requiring exams—with hyper-competitive schools, everything is technically optional, but they’re looking for the kids that do the above and beyond. It is optional to do research, it is optional to take AP classes, but the more competitive a college is, the more they expect you to do those optional, above-and-beyond things, and testing has become, for some test-optional schools, just one of those things.
However, a lot of the schools that had test-optional policies—not all, but quite a number of the most competitive ones—have shifted back towards a testing requirement because, as I said, they realized they needed this data point.
So Elton’s gonna talk a little bit more about why.
Current Trend
Applications are UP ↑
Elton Lin: Yeah, before we get into, maybe, some specifics about how testing is impacting the college admissions landscape, I think we need to maybe take a look at one trend. There are quite a few trends, and certainly, if you want to do a deeper dive into that, we have a webinar on that as well—but one particular trend that makes, really, the most impact is that the number of applications submitted per school is up.
And so, next slide…
Applications UP - Admit Rates DOWN
Almost 30% increase since 2020
+10% increase in public schools
+5% increase in private schools
81% came from target/safety schools
Elton Lin: Maybe a couple of metrics to describe that: there’s been almost a 30% increase since 2020, a 10% increase in applications to public schools, 5% increase to private schools, and generally speaking, 81% of that increase came from what most students would consider their target or safety schools.
Applications UP - Admit Rates DOWN
| Schools | Admit Rate 2020 | Admit Rate 2024 |
|---|---|---|
| Harvard | 4.92% | 3.59% |
| Yale | 6.53% | 3.73% |
| MIT | 7.41% | 4.52% |
| Dartmouth | 8.80% | 5.32% |
| Rice | 7.70% | 7.51% |
| NYU | 15.30% | 8.00% |
| UCLA | 14.00% | 8.25% |
| USC | 15.83% | 9.20% |
| Univ of Washington | 51.00% | 10.00% |
| UT Austin | 32.00% | 11.00% |
Elton Lin: And then just to maybe kind of give you a little glimpse of current admit rates as compared to 2020 from this 2024, just to kind of do a little bit of a glance over—but I’d love to perhaps hyperfocus in on a few schools here: I think the Harvard moving from a 4.92% to a 3.59%—I think we would all agree it’s neither here nor there. It’s still hard, right; so I think: bottom line, not a big surprise.
But a school like NYU at 15% going down to 8%: really cutting the admit rate in half. A UCLA going to an 8%... USC—I mean, even personally, I think USC, when I applied to college back in the early 90s, was a safety school for a lot of students, and now it’s at a 9%! Outstanding school, but surprising! And then when you think—when you look at a UT Austin at 11% and a University of Washington dropping to a 40%, which I predict will likely drop even more over the coming years—what many students considered as schools they, perhaps, would likely get into [are] becoming more and more difficult.
What Does This Mean?
Target schools are now reaches
Safety schools are LESS safe
Fine line between who is admitted and not admitted
Elton Lin: And so what does this mean? It means target schools, for many students, are now reaches; safety schools are less safe; and really, the fine line between who is admitted and who is not admitted is becoming much finer.
Applications UP - WHY?
Average apps submitted: 5 to 7
“Harder to get in! I’ll submit more!”
Most growth towards in-state publics
Elton Lin: Maybe a couple of quick reasons why apps are up: I think the average number of applications submitted moved from five to seven… and actually, for students that we work with, they’re submitting anywhere between 10 and 13 applications, with one of those applications being the University of California. So they’re getting anywhere between 15, 16, 17 results on a given cycle. So students are submitting more applications.
And you can understand that if getting into college is more difficult, the only sort of response is to apply to more schools to make sure that you have enough schools backed up, to make sure that you have good options. And oftentimes, for students, those applications are going to their in-state public schools. So whether it’s a UC system, or Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, or Texas A&M, or a Florida International—whatever the case may be, they’re applying to more and more in-state publics.
What Does This Mean?
Test scores aren’t everything BUT
Test scores do MATTER (and likely more than before)
Elton Lin: And then, perhaps, the next level—next layer of “what does this mean”... I think both Michael, Peyton, and I agree that test scores are definitely not everything. I mean, there’s a lot of factors included in this process… it’s still—grades in rigorous courses are still the most important thing, because they’re trying to assess whether you will survive once you land in college.
So test scores aren’t everything, but test scores do matter, and likely more than before.
Changes in Testing + Admissions
More top universities are requiring the SAT or ACT, including:
Brown
Dartmouth
Georgetown
Harvard, MIT, Yale
Purdue (“expect test scores”) 😮
UT Austin, Florida, Georgia, GA Tech
Elton Lin: Maybe to qualify or quantify this: more top universities are requiring the SAT or the ACT. And this—you know, I’ve included Harvard, MIT, Brown, Dartmouth, Georgetown—to me, I think the top schools transitioning to requiring testing, not—I mean, you know, slightly disheartening but not that surprising…
But what surprises me more is a school like Purdue—which is a terrific school, but perhaps maybe not quite as selective as a Harvard—making it very clear on their site that they expect test scores. Certainly, there could be a circumstance where you’re not able to get to a testing center, not able to submit scores… but for the rest of you, they expect test scores—and in which case, it pretty much means, unless you have an excellent excuse, you better submit them.
Georgia Tech, University of Georgia—Florida, actually, has always required them, and UT system also, beginning to require them as well.
Changes in Testing + Admissions
- Test scores are included in most college ranking rubrics, including US News Rankings
Elton Lin: And then, secondly, another sort of indication, is that test scores are included in most college ranking rubrics, including the U.S. News rankings. So if you’re a university that is mindful of its marketing, of its PR, rankings matter! And rankings matter to them, as far as… getting in front of people’s attention cycle, and making sure that they know how valuable of an education that they’re providing [is].
So if colleges care about rankings, they do, to some degree, have to care about test scores.
Changes in Testing + Admissions
| School (Test Optional) | Test Value as Reported by School | Percent Admitted Who Submitted Test Scores |
|---|---|---|
| Carnegie Mellon | Considered | 60% |
| Johns Hopkins | Considered | 45% |
| Emory | Important | 64% |
| Harvard | Considered | 66% |
| Northwestern | Considered | 70% |
| Penn | Considered | 60% |
| Rice | Very Important | 79% |
| Stanford | Considered | 60% |
| UVA | Considered | 60% |
Elton Lin: Another—maybe lastly, another sort of data point that I think is helpful to understand, is: the percent admitted who submitted test scores.
So on a given admissions cycle, the question is: “What percentage of those students admitted did submit test scores?” … And this is before many of these schools went to test-required; largely, most schools were test-optional in the last three or four years. And if you just do a quick scan—a Carnegie Mellon, a Johns Hopkins, even lower at a 45%, Emory at 64%... but just to highlight: a Northwestern at 70%, a University of Pennsylvania at 60%, a Rice at 79%—when you think about—clearly, the majority of students admitted in the freshman class submit test scores—you’re already getting a sense that… it’s not to say that if you don’t submit a test score, you’re absolutely in trouble, but the trend towards valuing a student with a high test score is sort of spelled out in some of these numbers.
What Does This All Mean?
- Prepare to take it!
- Submit the score if it’s an asset
- Higher test scores may trigger MORE scholarship or merit aid
- There’s nothing to lose!
Elton Lin: So what does this all mean? This is what we tell our students, just as they are preparing for what to put together: I always tell students to prepare to take it.
So if you’re in, maybe, the summer after 10th grade, you’re thinking about whether to take the SAT: I say take it. Do some practice, take the test, and see what score you get. And if you score something—if you score at a level that is an asset for your profile, then you should submit it. If you’re not scoring at a level that’s… where you want it to be, you don’t have to submit it.
So that is actually the advantage of test-optional that is still largely available for most universities in the United States: you have the option. So if you get a good score, submit it; if you don’t, then don’t worry about it.
And my other quick thing, which I think most students and parents aren’t aware of, is that higher test scores often trigger more scholarship or merit aid. So even if—I always, perhaps, use an example of: maybe, for a lot of high schools, the average entry test score for a Harvard is like a 1540 or 1550, and maybe you score a 1440, and you don’t feel like it’s quite what you know a top-tier university might be looking for… but for your safety schools, that might be still in the top 25% of the students who are submitting test scores, and that 1440 or 1450 may still trigger some scholarship or merit aid. And as expensive as school is, getting $10,000 a year here and there, or $15,000 a year, $20,000 a year—I mean, who’s going to turn down $40,000 to $80,000 total over the course of four years?
So in order to help access more aid, higher test scores may help. And this is where you’ve got nothing to lose. Go for it, take it, prepare for it, give it your best shot, and then decide later about what to do with the score.
2) The Digital SAT/PSAT
Michael Robin: Thank you, Elton. And you know, this is why we’re all here tonight, right: to learn about exactly the process of taking these exams, which are, again, my favorite topic.
We’re going to talk first about the digital SAT and PSAT, and get into specifics. We’re going to talk a little bit about how this new digital format works, and should your student take it.
Our View
In 2024-2025:
We do NOT recommend taking digital SAT
We advise taking paper ACT instead
Occasional cases where digital SAT makes sense
Michael Robin: And guess what? We’re not going to wait, we’re going to give you the spoiler alert now, we’re going to tell you our opinion at the outset.
The short answer is: no, this year, for most students in most cases, we do not recommend taking the digital SAT.
We’re going to get into the whys, we’re going to get into the format of it, for a handful of reasons, but—if you walk away from today with one message about this test, it’s that we advise, instead of taking digital SAT, to take the paper ACT, which we prefer for a lot of reasons. Paper format is one of them; there are a handful of other reasons, too.
But it’s important to know how the digital SAT works. (And again, there is no more paper SAT. It’s been completely phased out; there is only a digital SAT.) It’s important to know how this test works for a few reasons. There are cases—small cases, a handful of cases—where sometimes, digital SAT does make sense. There are some geographic areas in the country where it’s very hard to do ACT testing; it’s just not offered locally… in that case, you’re going to want to take the digital SAT. There may be accessibility needs a student has that paper ACT is less able to accommodate. So a student may want to take the digital SAT for those reasons.
Also, some students may want to prep for the digital PSAT. “Why would you prep for the PSAT? Isn’t it a practice test?”
PSAT/NMSQT
The PSAT is NOT a practice test
IT MATTERS!
National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test
11th grade PSAT only
High achievers SHOULD prep
Offered in October
Michael Robin: Unfortunately, the 11th grade PSAT is not simply a practice test. This is only for 11th graders, but for 11th graders, the PSAT is also the National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test, or the NMSQT. (It’s kind of a weird thing to say, but I like saying—I call it the NMSQT.)
High achievers should prep for the digital PSAT, because if you do well on the digital PSAT—which is coming up this October—you have a chance of becoming a National Merit Semi-Finalist, and that looks really good to colleges. If you can—it’s less about getting… the scholarship money is less significant than that semi-finalist or finalist status, which can really help your admissions profile. I was a finalist for National Merit, I didn’t get the scholarship, but it did help me get into Harvard. Juniors take the PSAT in October, so it’s coming up.
A high-achieving student, a student with really good grades and who generally tests well, should start prepping for the PSAT now! It doesn’t need to be exhaustive, it can only be—you know, it could be a few sessions—but that little bit of prep is… we think of it as an insurance policy to make sure that a student has done everything they can to possibly hit the marker they need to, the numbers they need to, on PSAT to achieve that.
Students will come to us after the PSAT and be like, “oh man, I was so close, I wish I had prepped,” and we don’t want students to feel that way; we want them to feel like they’ve done everything they could for this.
Digital SAT Structure
Scored on a 1600 scale
Shorter test: 2 hours, 15 minutes
Only TWO sections
Scores come back in days not weeks
Michael Robin: So how is the digital SAT itself structured? (And the digital PSAT is functionally a shorter version of the digital SAT.)
The digital SAT is scored on a 1600 point scale, which some of you may remember—most of the years the SAT has been around, they’ve done 1600 points, except for the weird sort of interim where they did 2400, but we don’t like to talk about that time. It’s a shorter test than the old SAT. So the new SAT, digitally… 2 hours and 15 minutes, and it is only two sections.
One other benefit of it being digital is that scores come back fast—within days, not weeks, because it’s graded by a computer.
Digital SAT/PSAT Structure
Reading/Writing Section
Reading:
Identify main idea/details in short readings
Vocabulary in context
Writing:
Grammar in context
Michael Robin: What are those two sections?
The first section is a reading and writing combo section, split across two different domains. The reading portion asks students to identify main ideas and details in short readings (each question has a short reading). It also tests vocabulary knowledge in context. The writing portion is not actually writing at all: it’s grammar in context. And we are big grammar nerds over here: in this particular example you’ll see on the slide, not even autocorrect can save grandma; only commas can.
Digital SAT/PSAT Structure
Math Section
High school math through Algebra 2
Mix of multiple choice + “student response”
Exact numerical answers
Graphing calculator allowed
Formulas sheet & scrap paper provided
Michael Robin: The second section of the digital SAT and PSAT is a math section.
This math section tests high school math all the way through Algebra 2. It contains a portion of multiple choice questions, and then a portion of student response questions. These student response questions are basically… you have to come up with a numerical answer yourself—an exact numerical answer, there aren’t choices. So you have to do some solving on scrap paper, which is provided, and then type into the computer an exact answer.
A graphing calculator is allowed; you should bring one, though there is one built into the exam itself. The exam also has a formula sheet and provides scrap paper, because students should never be doing—even on a digital test, students should never be doing this kind of math in their head; they must write it out. It’s very easy to get a lot of questions wrong if you try and do it all up here.
Digital & Adaptive Format
At a school or testing center
On a laptop or tablet
Bring your own
Multistage Adaptive Format
Each section split into two modules
Module 1: Easy, medium, & hard questions
Module 2: Depends on performance on Module 1
Either easy or hard
Can get locked out of top scores
Michael Robin: But of course, the biggest change to this test is that it’s digital. Students take it at a school or at a testing center (you can’t take it at home), but you do take it on your own device—or you can, and we recommend that you bring your own device, a device you’re familiar with.
The test—the digital exam uses what’s called a Multistage Adaptive Format. This is a little confusing, but I’ll sort of break it [down]. Basically, each of those two sections, the Reading/Writing and the Math, are broken into two modules. The first module of each of those two domains—the first Reading/Writing module contains a mix of easy, medium, and hard questions. The second module depends on your performance in Module 1. So if a student does really well on Module 1, they will get sent to a much harder Module 2. You will notice the difference. The difficulty will be quite clear. If you don’t do well in Module 1, you will get sent to a much easier Module 2, and you will notice the difference! The ease of those questions will be quite clear.
What this means is that it’s possible to get locked out of top scores. If you get the easy module you get locked out, basically maxed out at a 600; you can’t actually get a top score if you get sent to that easy module too. So, as it’s probably already clear, and as I was just alluding to: you get locked out of top scores. This is one of the many reasons that this digital adaptive format is bad.
THIS IS BAD!
Digital testing makes strategy less effective
Students with test taking anxiety at a disadvantage
Don’t do well on the first module? You can’t right the ship
Things tend to go wrong in transition years
Don’t be the College Board’s guinea pig!
We advise against students taking digital SAT this year
Michael Robin: As you know, I already said: we don’t recommend taking this digital SAT right now, especially in a transition year. There’s a bunch of different reasons we do not like this test.
One: digital testing makes test-taking strategy less effective. So much of test-taking, and so much from our view of the college readiness set of skills that we teach students when they’re working on preparing for these exams, the very skills that we think are actually essential for college… you can’t use on a computer screen. You can’t annotate a computer screen, you can’t mark up the test. And that makes it harder to do well in the exam, digitally.
The adaptive format also puts students with test-taking anxiety at a severe disadvantage. If you do badly on the first module—you’re a little anxious, but you find your footing—you can’t right the ship. You’re pushed into the easier second module, and you know you tanked first module, and that’s going to make that second easy module even harder, because the questions are so much easier, and you’re sitting there thinking, “oh my gosh, I didn’t do well, my max score is a 600.” That’s not a good place to be on a standardized test.
The other big reason we don’t love this test this year is that it’s brand new. Things go wrong in transition years. They have always gone wrong in transition years with the College Board and the SAT, and we don’t want your students to be the College Board’s guinea pig. It’s just—it’s not fair to kids, you know, and what happened earlier this year… I think it was a June administration of the digital SAT… 1400 kids in the East Bay, the Bay Area in California, came to school ready to take the digital SAT—the Wi-Fi was broken, they sat there for three hours, and then eventually were sent home not having taken the test. And that’s just not fair to kids; we don’t want kids to be in that situation, so we’re recommending against it this year.
We’ve even seen difficulty with respect to calibrating the test’s difficulty. So the College Board has, you know, made that second hard module sometimes too hard, and the jump between the first module and second module was such a leap up in terms of difficulty that kids were really thrown.
It’s not a great… the kinks have not been worked out in this test, they haven’t figured them all out yet, and so we’re advising strongly that students avoid this test this year. That opinion may change, but for now, right now: there’s things about it that we like, but we can’t recommend taking it this year.
3) The ACT
Michael Robin: So we’re saying: you should test, but don’t do the SAT. What’s the alternative? The alternative is the ACT.
And I want to emphasize this because it’s important: historically, you know, the students in the coasts took the SAT, students in the center of the country took the ACT… that’s changing these days. What’s important to underline is that colleges view the ACT the same as the SAT. There’s no test they’re more impressed by, there’s no better test. They’re both just as good, kids get into super competitive colleges with scores from both of them, and there’s no preference.
We have a preference this year, and we’re recommending ACT, but colleges themselves view the tests exactly the same.
ACT Structure
Take it ON PAPER
Four Sections
Optional Essay: Skip it!
Easier questions, less time
Big challenge is managing time
Michael Robin: So how does the ACT work? How is the ACT structured?
First: unlike the SAT, you take it on paper. There is a digital ACT, but you absolutely should not take the digital SAT—I’ll talk about it a little bit more in a moment—but take the ACT on paper. The whole point of taking the ACT is the option to take it on paper.
The test has four sections, which I’ll break out in a moment. There is an optional essay, and you can actually skip it. It’s no longer that—when the SAT got rid of their essay a number of years ago, the ACT kept theirs, but colleges don’t really care about that score that much, they’re much more interested in learning about a student’s writing from their actual application essays, so you don’t need to do the essay.
The biggest—one of the biggest overall differences between ACT and SAT is that the ACT’s questions, in general—little bit easier, little bit less inferential, they’re more linear. But the time crunch can be tough in the ACT, and so a lot of what we teach, and a lot of what we talk about, is helping students understand how to manage time on a test that is a pretty intense time crunch. Once you learn the strategies, once you get comfortable with the time crunch, it becomes a lot easier.
ACT English
45 minutes, 75 questions
Grammar in context
Rhetoric
Michael Robin: So the first section of ACT is our good old friend grammar. They call it the English section here, but again, it’s grammar and context, it’s testing rhetoric, commas, this sort of stuff.
ACT English
How is this different from SAT?
SAT:
20-30 grammar and rhetorical questions
ACT:
75 grammar/rhetoric questions
Greater focus on punctuation rules
Michael Robin: How is this section different from the way the SAT tests the same content?
On the SAT, there are 20 to 30 grammatical and rhetorical questions. It’s within a combined reading and writing section, so: fewer questions in a combo reading/writing section on ACT. There’s a lot more questions: 75 of them. They’re maybe a little bit easier; they’re in their own section, broken out. And the ACT does love punctuation. In fact, of the two tests, if we were going to have a “Let’s eat Grandma” versus “Let’s eat, comma, Grandma”—ACT is obsessed with commas, I don’t know why, but they love testing comma rules.
ACT Math
60 minutes, 60 questions
No formulas sheet provided
ALL questions are multiple choice
Math through Algebra II
Michael Robin: The next section is the ACT Math. This is 60 minutes, 60 questions. There is no formula sheet provided; however, all questions are multiple choice. What this means is that you can take educated guesses in the math section, whereas in the SAT Math section, you can’t. This also tests, like the SAT Math, through Algebra 2.
ACT Math
How is this different from SAT?
SAT:
“Student response” questions
Hard questions, no time crunch
ACT:
ALL multiple choice
No formulas sheet
Time crunch, but more linear questions
Focuses a bit more on geometry
Michael Robin: So how is this different from the SAT?
I think I already alluded to this a little bit: the SAT has those student response questions, which means you have to come up with an exact numerical answer. ACT is all multiple choice. And the SAT—the questions are going to be harder in terms of, maybe, multiple-step questions, they’re going to ask you to find something and plug it into something else, but there’s not as much of a time crunch. The ACT, as I’ve said, it’s all multiple choice. There is a time crunch, but the questions are generally more straightforward; they’re more one step, or maybe two steps, not multi-steps. And they do focus a little bit more on geometry, rather than the SAT, which focuses a little bit more on algebra and abstract algebra.
ACT Reading
35 minutes, 40 questions
Four Reading Passages, 10 questions each
More literal, less inferential
As always: Time crunch!
Michael Robin: The third section of the ACT is a reading section. This is a 35-minute section, 40 questions. There are four reading passages, each of which has 10 questions. And the questions are much more [literal] than the SAT; they’re more literal, they’re less inferential… the SAT is, you know, asking students to sort of make jumps; the ACT is just asking students to find and regurgitate information. But as ever, there’s a time crunch here.
So again, I’ve alluded to this a little bit, but one of the biggest differences between the two tests in terms of reading: the SAT Reading [has] one short reading for every question, whereas the ACT has four long readings, ten questions each. The SAT Reading includes chart and graph interpretation, whereas the ACT Reading does not include chart and graph interpretation, because the ACT puts the chart and graph interpretation in the Science section.
ACT Science
NOT REALLY A SCIENCE TEST!
It’s Scientific Literacy
NOT science knowledge
Interpreting charts, graphs, science writing
Doesn’t require much science knowledge
MUCH easier than it appears!
Michael Robin: Speaking of science, that is our fourth section of the ACT—fourth and final, because… we’re not recommending taking the essay. The ACT Science section is probably the reason most students, when they come to us, say, “oh, I don’t want to do the ACT because of the Science section.” People really dread it.
Here is the truth, here is the big secret: the ACT Science section is not a science test. It is not really that bad. This is a test that tests scientific literacy, not science knowledge, which means it’s basically the world’s most sophisticated “Where’s Waldo?” book. It is about interpreting charts, graphs, and science writing; it does not require, practically, any science knowledge—maybe, like, one or two tiny pieces of science knowledge that kids probably learned in middle school.
But it is significantly easier than it appears, and once students understand how to find information in the science section, how to use locators, and how to sort of break down [the information], and what to pay attention to and what not to—because the ACT Science section, probably more than any other test that students regularly take in high school, is riddled with extraneous information—once students know how to abstract out what doesn’t matter and look at what does, they do very well in this section. So it’s not a reason to not take [the] ACT, and it’s not really that bad.
2025 ACT Changes
New paper ACT coming in Fall 2025
Not relevant for current 11th graders
New digital ACT in Spring 2025
Do NOT take it!
We’ll do a presentation on the new ACT next year
Michael Robin: One thing I do want to mention: there will be some changes to the ACT coming in 2025. However, none of this is relevant for current 11th graders. If you’re an 11th grader, you’re starting 11th grade this fall of 2024: this doesn’t matter for you.
In the future, next fall, there will be a new paper ACT coming… there’s a new digital ACT coming sooner in the spring, but again, do not take a new digital test. You don’t want to be the guinea pig for the ACT folks; we don’t recommend digital exams. So if you hear, “oh, the ACT, it’s changing!”—it won’t affect current juniors.
And for younger students, we’ll do a presentation on it next year. They’ve said things in general about what it’s going to look like; they haven’t gotten into specifics. Our broad sense is it’s probably just going to be… they’re going to keep a paper option; it’s probably going to be a shorter version of the ACT that currently exists, so it’s not going to be as big of a transition as the SAT transition was.
So Elton: tell me, what is a good score?
4) What’s a “Good Score”?
Elton Lin: What is a good score? Excellent question, Michael.
So, maybe a couple things to consider with regards to defining what a good score is… the first thing is that I think, when you’re taking it, “does my test score represent my academic level?”
What’s a Good Test Score?
- Things to consider:
- Does my test score represent my academic ability?
- Does my score exceed the average admitted score at the college I’m applying to? (Common Data Sets)
- Does my score meet/exceed what other students from my high school are submitting? (Naviance, Scoir)
Elton Lin: So… certainly, if you’re practicing, you take a few practice tests, you kind of get a sense of where you’re at… you know, essentially—and in some cases, intuitively—how well you’re doing, and [you think,] “Does it really represent where I’m at?” Maybe secondly: “Does my score exceed the average admitted score at the college I’m applying to?”
So that’s perhaps a first filter, and you can search every school’s Common Data Set, which is a publicly submitted portfolio of data that includes average entry test scores to many of the schools that submit the Common Data Set… so you can search that.
But the best way, the best thing is to really understand: “Does my score meet or exceed what other students at my high school are submitting?” And the truth is that it’s not fair for a university to compare you—say, for example, we’re in the San Francisco Bay Area—to compare a student at a high school in a San Francisco Bay Area to a high school in Chicago, Illinois, to a high school in Cleveland, Ohio, because the contexts are different. What would be fair is perhaps comparing students to other students at the same high school who have access to the same resources.
And so most schools use a platform like Naviance—there’s different vendors, one’s called Naviance, one’s called Scoir, some use Maia—but generally speaking, what it is is that it is a college admissions data platform that houses all the college admissions data for that particular high school. So, you know, for many high schools—many of the schools in the Bay Area use Naviance, and you can go onto Naviance and search what the average entry test score is to each university from students admitted from your particular high school.
So let me give you—sort of show you a visual of what that looks like.
Naviance Scattergram
Elton Lin: So if you go onto Naviance—and this particular example is Monta Vista High School, Cupertino, California down here, and specifically for the University of Southern California. If you look at this, and you’re looking at the average entry GPA on the right screenshot, it’s a 1530 and a 3.86 GPA. But if you look at the national average entry admitted SAT score, it’s a 1440. But for Monta Vista students, it’s a 1530.
So this is where: if you’re coming and you’re getting a 1440, you’re comparing it to national data, you’re feeling confident—my sense is that, hey, before you get a little bit overconfident, kind of check yourself at the door a little bit, go strictly into your school Naviance or Maia or Scoir platform, and take a look at what students are being admitted with.
And in some cases, maybe your average SAT score might be lower than the actual average, and that’s where, you know, perhaps you might be able to celebrate! But certainly for the more competitive, potentially urban, higher-density places where there are a lot more college-bound [and] -going students, the average test score seems to be a little bit higher.
So just to give you an example here: for USC, for Monta Vista, and the national average.
Quick Tips
Plan to take the SAT or the ACT
Pick up reading as a habit EARLY
Focus on learning fundamentals in school
Review average test scores from students at your high school
Many good schools where test scores are less important for admission
Elton Lin: Some quick tips for you!
Plan to take the SAT or the ACT. I know Michael has definitely given his opinion, and I do agree: I think it’s better, there’s… personally, again, for me, just to reiterate, I feel like the digital SAT being released this year… I mean, I don’t like that our students are test subjects for the decision algorithm on the questions, so my thing is: ACT is longer, but the ACT is more consistent. We can reliably understand what you’re going to be getting…
I’m sure, in Michael and Peyton’s bank, they’ve got, you know, a boatload of practices; we also have a boatload of ACT practice tests, and they’re going to be consistent with what you’re going to be entering in with for the forthcoming ACT test.
But either way, plan to take the SAT or the ACT.
Maybe one quick thing is that I’ve always noticed that the students who are good readers just tend to do better. And this is where, if you’re talking about working through reading comprehension passages, whether it’s the ACT Science or just in other sections on the SAT or the ACT, being able to read well, quickly, and ascertain what the meaning is in a very efficient way is super helpful.
So if you’re an eighth or ninth grader, or a family representing a seventh, eighth, or ninth grader on our call today: pick up reading, please. Focus on learning fundamentals in school. And I think my main thing here is that oftentimes, parents or students want to start SAT or ACT prep really early. And my thing is: hey, I’d rather you focus on learning your geometry, learning your Algebra 2 well, focusing on establishing good foundations, and then, in so doing, doing better on the SAT or the ACT.
So learn your fundamentals in school well. I would not actually start test prep too early—and there’s certainly a time for it; we’ll talk about it in a moment.
Review average test scores from students at your high school to universities across the United States. And again, many good schools where test scores are… don’t worry, there are many good schools around the United States where test scores are less important for admissions! So even though we’ve spent quite a bit of time talking about the importance of test scores, especially to top-tier, highly-selective schools, there are tons of amazing schools where test scores are still not the most—not the most critical factor, and you still have access to a lot of good schools, without question.
How to Prep for (P)SAT/ACT
ACT/SAT
Start summer before junior year
~6-9 months of prep depending on goals
Take the exam 2-3 times to hit target score
For ACT, get comfortable with timing
Digital SAT
Install + get comfortable with Bluebook App
Michael Robin: Thank you, Elton.
I’m going to dive into this slide, but before I do, I want to reiterate something Elton said: we really do believe that there is a “too early” time for prep. If students come to us, you know, freshman year, 8th grade… certainly, absolutely the freshman, sophomore year… a lot of times, we’re like: no, it’s better to wait. Students just get—they have learned more, they have more school exposure… students just get smarter as they get older. They’re, you know, developmentally in a better place to take this test.
And so in general, the way we recommend prepping for these exams, and how we prep students for the SAT or ACT, is we recommend starting the summer before junior year. So if a student is about to start 11th grade, now is a good time to start. And it depends on the student, depends on the goals, it’s variable, but it could take six to nine months to prepare if you have ambitious goals, depending on where you’re starting from.
The focus of prep is very much first on strategy. These tests are gameable. There is a consistent pattern to the way they’re designed. There are certain types of questions that appear over and over and over again. And we like to say, we want students thinking like a test maker, not like a test taker. How is the test designed? How can you—even if you don’t totally understand the question—how can you use the design of the exam itself to help you figure out what the right answer is, even if you’re feeling a bit confused?
Once students are really comfortable learning strategy, we recommend taking a lot of full-length practice tests. That strategy needs—you know, it’s sort of like learning an instrument: you practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, you do skills—or sport, you know, you do drills, and then you do scrimmages, and then eventually you have a game, right? With these exams, it’s taking full-length practice tests that really help students put the strategies in the context of the exam itself.
And from there, we recommend students plan to take the exam two or three times to hit their target score… if a student hits their goal score on the first time, we say: goodbye, you’re done, no more, go do something else, because there are many more fun things you could do with your lives. But it’s helpful for students to go into that exam the first time knowing that they have an opportunity to take it again. It really takes the pressure off, and there is… theoretically, you could keep taking it, but we don’t recommend that. We don’t—we want students to do other things that are more impressive than to repeatedly take this exam.
With ACT, a big part of the prep is getting comfortable with the timing. Time crunch, again, is the biggest challenge on that test. So we recommend students get what’s called an “ACT watch”; they’re allowed on the tests, and they don’t make any beeps, and they are pre-programmed in, have the section time, so they can help you.
If a child has processing issues or ADD, and either get extra time or could be tested to get extra time: we recommend doing that. With extra time, it takes away the greatest difficulty of the ACT, and the ACT becomes a really straightforward test.
For whatever reason, if you do end up deciding to take digital SAT, or to prep for digital PSAT, make sure you install and get comfortable with the Bluebook App, which is the app you’ll take the test in prior to actually the day of. So if you’re prepping for digital PSAT, now is a good time to install on your device the Bluebook App and start prepping… There’s a limited number of practice tests, official practice tests, in Bluebook; don’t use them all too fast. But that first one is a good diagnostic that we like and use.
And of course, reach out! We’re here to help, Elton’s here to help; we want to be a resource for you guys. We know that this process can be confusing, and there’s so much change, but it’s our business and my passion to be obsessed with testing and these changes, and we want to give you guys the most updated information.
5) Q&A
Michael Robin: So if there are any questions, you can always reach out—or you can ask them now, because now is time for the Q&A!
Michael Robin: I’d like to welcome Petyon back, and I’m gonna let you field some questions—let you ask some questions!
Peyton McDavitt: Okay, there you go! Great job, gentlemen! It was very thorough.
Yes, this has been recorded; we’ll make sure everybody receives the recording, because we know that was a lot of information.
So without further ado, let’s jump into the questions.
“Has the ACT announced plans to move to digital testing only, no paper version; and if so, when?”
Michael Robin: As of right now, I think the ACT… as of right now, we’re in a funny moment with the ACT. The ACT’s plans, and what they’ve announced, feels to me instinctively like a move to compete with the College Board; they’re trying to get back market share from the SAT. They have said publicly, as of right now, that there will always be a paper option, and that they will be doing a digital and paper side-by-side; however, they’ve sort of been vague in what they’ve said, and for all I know, as we’re live on this webinar, they could have changed their minds.
But as of right now, there will be a paper ACT and a digital ACT both, side-by-side offered, and I think—and my guess is that the ACT folks will keep that [paper] test around because they know, like we do, that the paper test will attract students. The SAT—there is no paper option, and the lack of a paper option makes ACT, in our view, the better test. And I think, you know, for competition reasons, the ACT will keep that paper test around, even as they add a digital test. Certainly, next year, and certainly for current juniors, the paper test will remain.
Peyton McDavitt: Great! Elton, anything to add to that?
Elton Lin: No! Good job, good job, Michael.
Peyton McDavitt: [laughs] Great!
Next question: “So if I’m a junior now, Class of 2026, I take the ACT in my senior year? Or do I take it later in my junior year?”
Michael Robin: If you’re a junior now—currently, you know, just starting junior year, you should take it junior year. We wouldn’t recommend waiting—I mean, you can wait until senior year, but we would think it’s much better to spend the summer before… and I think Elton probably agrees… you want to spend the summer before senior year working on your application essays, which are a huge amount of work.
Now is the time—if you’re a current junior, now is the time to start prepping for the exam and take it… February, would be… depending on… you would start with the diagnostic, we start all students with a full-length diagnostic to get a sense of where they’re at, and then determining from the diagnostic and goals, when do you take the ACT for the first time: usually February of junior year tends to be the sweet spot to take the ACT for the first time. Some kids are ready for December; some kids need to wait until April.
Elton Lin: Yeah, just to add to that… I definitely, by and large, agree. I think a lot of what we tell students is, there is a very understandable three-test arc. This is also back when you had to report your test score—like, report your full test report. That’s not the case anymore, but there is a very understandable allowance to see students take it three times.
So if you’re gonna take it, if you think of a three-test arc… oftentimes we want students to take it in the fall of their junior year, spring of their junior year, but before—ideally, away from your AP testing, which is in May. And then if you feel like you haven’t hit your score, then you take it one more time in the fall. And oftentimes, for the ACT, I like September; the SAT score comes out quick enough for you to take it in October in time for the early deadlines on November 1st.
And so most of the time, we, you know—I always feel like you go into the first time you take test, if you’re taking it in-person, it’s this cold, scary place… just get one test out of your system and then get used to the setting, remind yourself that you’re going to be okay, and then you oftentimes will do better on the second or third time. So take it multiple times; it’s all right! Go for it.
We like fall, spring, and then senior—your last time on your senior year fall.
Peyton McDavitt: It’s really nice to have that safety net if you don’t hit your target score.
Michael Robin: Yeah. And unlike—and I think Elton alluded to this, but to sort of repeat it—you don’t have to. If you don’t do well, colleges will never know. You don’t have to send that score in, which is great. So it takes some of the pressure off, whereas even five, seven years ago, you had to send everything, and that wasn’t fun.
Elton Lin: That was different five years ago! We were strategizing very specifically about when, how, how it’s going to look, and that’s not the case anymore, so that’s a good thing.
Peyton McDavitt: All right. Next question—this is a good one: “Our main goal is to get into a school in the UC system. Do you see them coming back to looking at test scores? Does doing well on the SAT or ACT matter for UCs?”
Elton Lin: Yeah, I’ll jump in on this one.
UCs have declared that they’re not—they’re test-free, so they are not looking at test scores. It doesn’t factor into the admissions process. They are getting what they want from other data points, and so I don’t suspect—we don’t suspect that the UC is going to revert back to looking at test scores. There’s a few other test systems, including the CSU system and other schools, that are going test-free.
So there is a movement towards absolutely no testing—and then, strangely, a movement towards requiring it now. So it’s going to be a mish-mash of requirements, and hence it’s important to pay attention and to be on this webinar! So glad to have you.
Peyton McDavitt: Michael, anything to add there?
Michael Robin: I was just going to give the very short answer of “no, you don’t”.
[Everyone laughs.]
Michael Robin: That was my whole answer to that question—no, I was just like, I’m usually the verbose one! But I was like: “Nope! If you’re just for UCs right now, no.” There’s always the possibility that they change their policies, but I don’t see that happening.
Peyton McDavitt: Great, okay!
So: “How are this SAT and PSAT different? My son is taking an SAT prep class right now; does he need to study separately for the PSAT?”
Michael Robin: No. I mean, functionally no. It’s the same—the SAT is just a longer version of the PSAT. They’re scored slightly different: the PSAT is… out of 1520, which is—it’s 1520, which is a bizarre number, and I don’t know why they do that—but if you prep for the SAT, you’re prepping for the PSAT.
Peyton McDavitt: Okay: “I’ve only ever taken the SAT and the digital SAT. How difficult would it be for me to switch from the SAT prep mindset to ACT prep? Is there any continuity between the two tests?”
Elton Lin: It’s a good question.
Peyton McDavitt: Lot of factors, yeah.
Michael Robin: I would—I mean, it’s not that hard. It depends on where you are in your arc: if you’re a senior and applying to colleges right now and your applications are due, I wouldn’t make that switch, just because you’re working on a tight time frame, and there’s other things that are a priority, and it doesn’t make sense to sort of have two things in your brain at once like that when you’re also working on your applications.
If you’re a junior: easy switch. There’s plenty of time to make that transition.
And the truth is, there is a ton of overlap; they’re testing the same content, they’re just coming at it from different ways. It’s more like two shades of the same color rather than two different colors, you know. So you’re going to see grammar questions that are testing the same concepts, you’re going to see reading questions testing the same concepts; they’re just doing it slightly differently. And if you’ve learned the SAT strategies, they’re almost all applicable on ACT.
Peyton McDavitt: Elton, anything to add there?
Elton Lin: No, I agree! I like the metaphor of two shades of the same color. I’m gonna steal that, Michael.
Peyton McDavitt: Yeah, I think just to reiterate what Michael said: It really depends on where you are in your arc. If you’re studying and you’re doing well in your practice exams, stay the course. If you kind of want to shake it up and see how the other track looks, you can pivot.
Michael Robin: And I should actually—one thing to add: if you’ve been prepping for the SAT and you’re getting top scores, you’re getting 1500+ scores: don’t change. You should only switch tests if you’re not hitting your goals.
Peyton McDavitt: Great. “If a student is using a district-owned device and can’t download the Bluebook app, how would you recommend they practice for the SAT?”
Ooh. The SAT is on the Bluebook app.
Michael Robin: Yeah, I mean, I would be—the district should be putting the Bluebook, because the student will—the Bluebook app is where you take the test itself, so the district should be putting the Bluebook app on the computer, because you’re going to take the test on the computer that the district has provided. You have to! Like the Bluebook isn’t just a practice app, it’s the test app itself. So I would give the superintendent a nice call or email and be like, “Hey, we’re going to be taking the PSAT on these devices, we need to be able to practice.”
Yeah, that’s a… I would be surprised if they didn’t allow the Bluebook app, which will necessarily need to be on those district-owned devices in order for the PSAT to be administered on those devices.
Peyton McDavitt: “Your presentation and analysis focused on the digital SAT versus the paper ACT. Can you speak to the digital ACT versus the paper ACT, or do all the same points apply?”
Michael Robin: Yes, they all apply. However, so—oh boy. There is a currently—there is a digital ACT; it’s offered in very limited capacity. It is, as best as we can understand it from our conversations with the folks that make the ACT, fundamentally broken. There are no practice tests for the digital ACT that currently exist, there are features missing in a variety of sections… the only material that exists to practice with it has all kinds of broken aspects to it.
So if we feel negative—if we’re suggesting away from digital SAT this year, except in certain cases—there is, present tense—this year, there is no situation in which we would recommend taking the digital ACT. We really do not like it, because it’s just—if you took the paper ACT and broke it in 7,000 ways, that’s what the digital ACT is.
That is a rotting—well, that’s a rotting fruit. We’re going to a fruit metaphor rather than a color metaphor. But that’s a rotting fruit, not a different type of the same fruit.
Peyton McDavitt: Right. Different color.
It just seems like they really put it together slapdash because they were trying to keep up with the digital SAT, and it has not—to the folks at the College Board, they really put a lot of work into the digital SAT, and it is a great test. We don’t recommend it for the reasons that Michael and Elton explained, but as for the ACT… clearly, they haven’t been testing it; it’s very haphazard. Stay away from it at all costs.
Okay, next question: “Do you recommend both the ACT and SAT?”
Elton Lin: As in, taking both the ACT and SAT, and assuming that you’re going to score high on them, submit them both, is that the…
Peyton McDavitt: Well, why don’t you answer that question, then; why don’t you answer versus like… prepping for one or the other?
Elton Lin: Yeah, I mean… no. I think it’s not necessary to submit both. I know there’s some kind of… because we’ve seen this—some strange esoteric data about submitting both test scores, but… there’s absolutely nothing conclusive about having high scores in both formats and submitting them.
So I agree with Michael and Peyton about definitely recommending the ACT over the SAT, but if you’re scoring high on the SAT, then you know, go for it! In the end, it’s about getting the score you want on whatever platform, and then submitting that. So no, I wouldn’t aim to do both.
Michael Robin: And with that, our view is… these scores, you know, they’re not going to get you into a college. These scores will help you get into a college that… they will help an overall admissions profile, but… like, a 1600 will not impress a competitive college the way that doing research or doing any number of other things will. They’ll help the admissions profile, but they’re not going to be the thing that gets you in.
We would much rather see kids focus on one test, do really well on that test, prep for that test, say goodbye to us, work with Elton, go do, you know, interesting things with their time, all kinds of interesting extracurriculars and fun stuff, and invest in their passions, because that’s what will get you into a hypercompetitive college, not submitting an SAT and an ACT score. It won’t help you.
And ultimately, even if you do well in both tests, you could have spent that time prepping for both, which can be kind of confusing, because you’re managing two different sets of strategies—they’re similar, but there are differences—managing that all in your head… we’d rather students spend that cognitive load and time doing something they’re passionate about that is impressive to—more impressive to colleges than taking two tests.
Elton Lin: Agreed, absolutely.
Peyton McDavitt: Alright. I think that concludes the questions! Last chance, if anybody has any other final questions.
Alright. Well, thank you all so much for being here, it was such a—
Michael Robin: Oh, you know what? I just see something in chat: “When do you take the PSAT and how do you plan for PSAT around SAT/ACT?”
That’s a good question. So: everybody takes the PSAT in October, and it’s like this weird thing where all juniors—actually, there’s a sophomore PSAT too, but we’re less focused on that—all juniors take it the same week or so, or the same handful of weeks, and all the juniors are memeing about it because they’re all taking—the entire population of sixteen, seventeen year olds in the country is taking the same test and the same questions and making jokes about it.
And, you know, planning for PSAT around SAT/ACT, this year in particular, for a super high-achieving kid who maybe could hit those National Merit markers… we would say it’s worth doing a little bit of prep now for PSAT, and then focusing on ACT. If a kid is knocking it outside the park with the PSAT work, if PSAT is really their strength, and we think that there’s a possibility they could just crush it with SAT, maybe we just continue on that path.
In general, though, we’re recommending a little bit of work towards PSAT in October, alongside focus[ing] on ACT for the ACT exam cycle.
Good! Well, as Peyton said, I think that is our last question.
Peyton McDavitt: Reach out to us, scan us. We’re here!
Michael Robin: Yeah! Well, thank you all so much. It was such a pleasure to be able to nerd out on these tests with all of you. And reach out! We’re here to support.
Peyton McDavitt: Okay, have a great night! Bye!
Elton Lin: Thanks, everybody!