Webinar Transcript: Should I Apply Early?
Elton Lin
Anthony Su: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us tonight on another part of our webinar series. [We’re] talking about early decision [and] early action today – as a lot of our juniors (soon to be rising seniors) are about to be planning their college lists, and thinking about which schools they might want to [do] an early application for.
We definitely want to cover this topic, and make sure all of our students and families have the most information they can, considering this topic, since it is kind of complicated. I want to make sure you're off to the right start here.
Today we're joined by Kelly. Kelly, do you want to introduce yourself to everyone?
Kelly Pofahl: Sure – hi everybody! Thank you so much, Anthony, for having me today. Yes – I'm Kelly Pofahl. I am an educational consultant at ILUMIN; I do coaching with 9th graders through 11th graders, and I do admissions counseling with 11th graders and 12th graders.
Anthony Su: All right. I'll pass it to you, Kelly.
Kelly Pofahl: Great! I'm so excited to talk about this subject.
So basically, how this is going to go is: I'm going to talk about, “What is early decision, and what is early action?” “What are some important things to consider?” “What should you do?” And then, at the end, we will take some questions.
What is early decision?
Early decision (ED) is a binding agreement between you and a college, in which you agree that you WILL attend that college, should they offer you admission.
Kelly Pofahl: I know this can be confusing (it is a little bit confusing) so I want to just bring some clarity to these terms.
“Early decision” (we call it ED) is a binding agreement. It's not a legal agreement, but I like to consider it almost a legal agreement – because it is such a strong agreement! The students have to sign something. The parents have to sign something. And the school counselor has to sign this agreement! It's between the student, the parents, the school counselor, and the college – and basically you are saying that if you get in under this early decision agreement, you will go.
You're on the honor system; you were saying, “I will go.” And you can jeopardize your admission to other schools if you don't keep that agreement! It's very important.
You can only do early decision at one school. And if you do get accepted early decision to that school, you have to withdraw all your other applications! You apply early decision in November – and sometimes even earlier. You can go ahead and apply to all of your other schools… but once you hear from that school in December or January, you have to, again, withdraw all of the other applications.
We're going to talk a lot about this: there is another option called ED2 – and that's early decision two. We're going to talk about that in a little bit.
Again, if you are admitted under the early decision contract, you must go. You can only apply to one. The latest early decision deadline I've seen is December, but some – my own daughter, most of my students this last cycle – had to have it in by November.
Again, you sign the contract: you will abide by the rules! And the schools are very, very serious. Look at some of these schools (that do ED): Columbia, Penn, Duke, Johns Hopkins.
The reason that students do this is, yes, the [ED] acceptance rate is usually higher – and I'm going to have some charts to show you. Also, it helps the school – because it helps their yields. The school knows that these students are for sure gonna attend! It's a win-win.
When should I apply ED?
Kelly Pofahl: Let's talk about circumstances of when you might apply early decision:
Of course, [to] your number one school – but it's not just that. It's not just like, “Oh, you want to go to Harvard? You should apply early decision!” There are some other things that you need to consider.
Such as: can you afford to go? Imagine that your dream school is $80,000, and you're accepted – and you're all of a sudden bound to the school through this contract. But what happens if you don't get any money offered? You're still obligated to go and to pay!
There are a couple of things I want to talk about with this. You want to make sure that you will absolutely attend this college – no matter what! And then back to the financial situation: if you are accepted early decision, the college is going to put together a financial aid package, and send your family a bill. And that can get really complicated! So I want to talk about this for a minute – because this has happened.
There are two things you want to do when you are going to apply – really to any college, but especially early decision:
You want to go on the website and find the net price calculator – it's called NPC: net price calculator. The student or the parent can go on and put in some financial information, and you will get a rough estimate of how much the net cost of the college will be. I highly recommend that you do something like that before doing early decision!
And then also, when you're filling out the FAFSA, you will get something back called the “expected family contribution”: the EFC. I think that that's changing this year, or the next, coming year. But you will get a ballpark number of what to expect that you will have to pay – plus any loans that you might be taking out.
Again, you want to make sure that you're going to go no matter what – and that you can afford to go!
And will you be able to submit your best application by the deadline? You don't want to be rushing around – “I have to do early decision!” – and skimp out on your application! You want to make sure that you're working with someone – someone at ILUMIN, or someone you trust – that can really help you turn in the most competitive application that represents your best self.
Anthony Su: This part is especially tricky (the “afford to go”) because, [as] a financial aid package, sometimes you're not sure what they're going to offer. It’s something that you really want to try to nail down – or have a really strong estimate – so that you're going to be confident. The worst-case scenario is you do get in, and you're not able to afford it! There's this awkward conversation of trying to figure out what to do now.
Just make sure that that is a point of [consideration] as well.
Kelly Pofahl: Absolutely.
This happened to one of my students this year! They did run the net price calculator. We talked about price. They applied – and they got in, which was very exciting. But sometimes students think they're going to be awarded lots of money for their grades. If you're applying to a top-25 school, you should understand that everyone has really top grades, and everyone has top test scores, and everyone has really amazing extracurriculars. So (especially if you're doing early decision at a top-25 school) don't make those assumptions that you're going to be awarded a ton of money – because everyone else probably has around the same stats that you do!
That's my two cents.
What is early action?
NON-binding (do not have to go)
Can apply to multiple EA schools
Decision by mid-Dec. (early!)
MIT, Caltech, Michigan, GA Tech
Kelly Pofahl: What is early “action,” then? Early action is very similar to early decision, but it's not binding. You don't have to fill out any type of contract and sign it. Your parents don't have to. Your counselor doesn't have to. You're not required to attend if you get in.
I love early action – and I really, really want all of my students to do early action at as many schools as possible! If they are ready – if they have the time to put into it to represent themselves [well]. One reason a student might not be ready is maybe the deadline for early action is November, and maybe that student is really doing well in their fall AP classes and getting really great grades – and wants to get that extra boost! [If you apply EA, the schools won’t see your fall quarter senior grades.]
90% of my students will apply early action – and I promote that – but there's always an exception.
Another reason that I really promote applying early action is financial. A lot of the schools [have deadlines for merit aid]. USC has a December 1st deadline, and you have to get your application in by then [to get merit aid]. Even Utah has a November 15th deadline – and you don't get merit money if you don't apply by that date. A lot of the top colleges want your application in early – so they can figure out merit [aid].
But also, a great thing about early action is you can apply to multiple schools.
My own daughter, I don't think, would have gotten [into] her college [if] she hadn't done early action – and I'll tell you why… The school my daughter applied to, the year before, had a 38% acceptance rate. Great! We were pretty good. We were feeling, “She has a real, 38% chance of getting in!”
Well, what happened? I knew to do early action. It was our first-choice school. She applied early action – and got in!
What happened was they were flooded with applications that year that she applied. And it turned out that her class had an 8% acceptance rate at the end of the day! They had to waitlist so many students – because the school got really popular (for some particular reasons); they got overloaded with applications. That year it was an 8% acceptance rate!
So that's another thing that can happen at schools. This year a school got really popular because there wasn't an extra essay. They got like 96,000 applications! Doing early action can be an advantage.
Again, you're not obligated to attend. They're due the same time the early decision applications are. There are so many reasons why early action is just a really great choice to do!
Anthony Su: To clarify – because I want to make sure that everyone understands what Kelly's talking about: they do review all the early action applicants before getting to regular decision.
If the school happens to take in 50% of the class [through early action] (or 60%, 70%, 80%) it does, in a way, “crowd out” that regular decision pool of students. When the admission officers [are looking at] these [regular decision] students, they have to say, “Well, we already took in so many students in the early action pool.” And these tend to be students that might be a little bit stronger, [or] might be a little bit more interested in the school – that they hit the early deadline to do all the applications early on, and write all the essays.
The regular decision pool then becomes, possibly, a little bit more competitive, or harder – if a lot of students were already accepted in that early round. You can think of this as a priority round. If you are interested in the school, you want to be in that early action group when possible!
Kelly Pofahl: Absolutely. And at ILUMIN, I start really early with the students. We're about to start looking at the applications in June – even though the Common App opens August 1st! I'm gonna be looking at the prompts from last year.
We get ready early! We spend all summer at ILUMIN [preparing]. We have an essay boot camp: we're working on the essays. We're doing our activities list. We're talking about our latest recommendations – so we can meet those early action deadlines!
What is restrictive early action?
Restrictive early action is also non-binding.
However, if you apply [early] to a school that has restrictive early action, you may not apply to any other schools in the early rounds… with a few exceptions.
Kelly Pofahl: Next, restrictive early action (as if it couldn't get any more complicated): “restrictive” early action falls into the family of “early action.” Again, it's non-binding. Now the thing that's tricky is if a school has restrictive early action (I believe Stanford is an example of restrictive early action), it means that you may not apply to any other schools in the early rounds – including early decision. So if you're applying to Stanford restrictive early action, you can't apply to any other private schools early decision or early action!
There is an exception: if a state university has early action. For example, University of Michigan, or UT Austin. Those are public schools. They're state schools. So if you’re doing restrictive early action at Stanford, you can still go back and do early action at Michigan or at UT Austin – or a big public school that offers it.
This allows families to hear back from lower-tuition public schools ([like] in-state schools) – while you're still waiting for the more expensive private schools [to which] you applied restrictive early action.
Anthony Su: This is the tricky one of the three. Early decision makes sense: you're stuck. You have to go (if you get in). Early action: you just know earlier. Restrictive early action is this confusing one: where it's just you cannot apply to any other school (besides this exception with publics). And it tends to be very, very selective schools that get to choose and say, “We're going to be restrictive early action – and a little bit different.”
Stanford is there. I think Yale and Harvard have restrictive early action. These very competitive schools have this option.
Kelly Pofahl: Yeah. [Here are] some examples of schools that have restrictive early action: Stanford (like Anthony said), Harvard, Yale, Princeton.
Here's another story from this last term: I had two students with extremely high stats. They had just really high test scores, really high GPAs – my highest achievers that I had. And they both wanted to do restrictive early action at Stanford.
We at the last minute decided not to – because it restricted them from doing early decision at another school (that maybe they could get in a little bit easier). They didn't want to be limited – and not be able to do the early action choice at all the other schools. So they decided against the restrictive early action. It really does limit you sometimes.
(If you're not [sure if you’re] a high contender for Stanford, or a school like Harvard or Yale or Princeton, you need to talk to your educational consultant: “Am I actually a contender for this?” Because you don't want to cut out your chances to do early action at all the other schools, or early decision!)
It's really a tough choice, and it's really a choice you should be making with your educational consultant.
What is early decision 2?
[Like ED1, it is binding.]
January 1st deadline (same as RD [regular decision])
If rejected/deferred on ED1, you can apply ED2 to another college (2x chances!)
Decision earlier than RD (mid-Feb)
UChicago, BU, BC, NYU, SCU, CMU
Kelly Pofahl: This has been a trend – and I love this trend; I had really great success with this: 82 this year in particular. It was really exciting!
For example, I had a student who wanted to go to Yale – her dream school! She didn't get in. (Yale was just single digit acceptance.) The student was an incredible student. I really enjoyed working with her. So we decided, “Let's do ED2 at Boston College.” And it was so exciting – because she got in, and it is the perfect fit for her.
So what happened is we met the ED1 deadline for Yale. That didn't work out. And then we found out in time to do an ED2!
Now most of the competitive schools (the Ivies, top 25 schools, the big fancy public schools like Michigan) have an ED2. It's the same deadline, typically, as regular decision. You're already doing your regular decision apps that you couldn't get in for early action and early decision. If you find out that you didn't get into your early action schools or your early decision school, you have a chance – another chance – to do early decision!
I now am approaching this process with this in mind: ED1 for the top school (that the student can afford, that they're a contender for). If that doesn't work, what's the ED2 school? Of course, we're all on board together: the student and me and the parents. But I definitely am using ED2 as a tool.
Some of the schools are listed here that have ED2. Like I said, BC – Boston College. BU is Boston University. NYU. I believe SCU is Santa Clara University. Carnegie Mellon. Chicago. If some of these schools are your first choice or second choice, ED2 would be a good choice for these schools.
Another strategy that I've used with ED2 is if a student wants to improve their test scores fall term senior year, or improve their academic trend (their GPA) senior year – then it's a really great thing to do ED2 in January. Their GPA has improved. Their test scores have improved. Maybe they ended their service project. It really gives the students more time.
Also, it gives students more time to go visit the college! Maybe they want to go to NYU – and really check it out, and see if it's a fit. Or maybe they need to get more recommendations from teachers that they couldn't get [before]. That's another thing: getting the letters of recommendation in time for early decision and early action can be challenging! If for some reason the teacher doesn't come through (or maybe the teacher's overwhelmed with hundreds of letters of recommendation), the early decision 2 is a good choice to do – just to make sure you have all the materials.
Timeline
Kelly Pofahl: This is a timeline of what we've been talking about:
(They're pretty standard dates.)
November 1st and 15th are usually the deadlines for early decision [ED1] and early action.
And then, usually either December 1st or December 15th are the early decision deadlines.
And then comes January. This is where most of the regular admission deadlines are. January 15th might be a regular decision deadline. But then, also, the ED2 deadline for Boston College comes up at the same time. So you might have some regular decisions – and you're also working on your ED application at the same time!
Mid-February is when you find out about your ED2 decisions.
I remember NYU came out December 15th [for ED1]. So when you meet that November 1st or November 15th ED deadline or EA deadline, usually the schools will notify you by December 15th. And then, when you do ED2 in January, the schools will notify you by February.
Right now we're in April, and I believe everything has been released all through March and April. Every day there’s a new decision date – and you can actually find them online! But starting in March, regular decision admission decisions come out – and it's very exciting! My email blows up! My phone blows up! It's just the most exciting thing ever!
And then May 1st is decision day – which is also one of my favorite days! May 1st is when all the kids have their sweatshirts, and they post their decisions on social media. You basically have to decide where you're going by May 1st – and have your deposits in!
Do you have any comments on the timeline, Anthony?
Anthony Su: No, but just there was a question clarifying about ED1/ED2. Yes, there are different deadlines. ED1 is typically November 1st. ED2 is typically January 1st.
What happens, typically, is if you apply ED1 and you get in, great! You're going to the ED1 school. If you do ED1 and you do not get in, you have a second chance with your early decision 2.
I don't want to say it's super recent but it's definitely become much more popular [for the schools] to do ED2.
Kelly Pofahl: I'm so excited about it! And I feel like I've got it down! I've had some good success stories at ILUMIN with ED2. So I want to keep it going! I mean, of course I want my students to get in with their ED1 – but I love that the ED2 option exists. I think it's super exciting!
And I'll show you why it's exciting with the next slide:
ED percentages (2021-2022)
| College | RD admit | ED admit | % of class | Multiplier |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| CollegePenn | RD admit4.4% | ED admit14.9% | % of class48.9% | Multiplier3.4x |
| CollegeColumbia | RD admit3% | ED admit11.3% | % of class43% | Multiplier3.7x |
| CollegeCornell | RD admit6.7% | ED admit21.4% | % of class51.9% | Multiplier3.2x |
| CollegeJohns Hopkins | RD admit11.5% | ED admit28.9% | % of class41% | Multiplier2.5x |
| CollegeDuke | RD admit4.7% | ED admit16.4% | % of class47.5% | Multiplier3.5x |
| CollegeNorthwestern | RD admit5.1% | ED admit24.3% | % of class53% | Multiplier4.7x |
| CollegeEmory | RD admit11.6% | ED admit26.3% | % of class56.6% | Multiplier2.3x |
| CollegeNYU | RD admit13.8% | ED admit27.8% | % of class67% | Multiplier2.0x |
Kelly Pofahl: This is why people do it – if you look at this chart!
This is for the class of 2021-2022. Now I want to be clear that these are not just ILUMIN students! This is on the national level.
Let's look at Columbia University. Most of the students have really high… everything, and they're applying to Columbia. They have a 3% chance of getting in. Well, if you know that you love it and that you'll go (and that you can most likely afford it) [and you apply ED] you have an 11% chance. It goes up that much! Even if you look at Johns Hopkins: you start with an 11%, and it goes all the way up to 28.9%. I've seen schools that go up to 40%!
If your dream school is Northwestern – if that's your number one school – it absolutely makes sense to have a 24% acceptance rate, versus a 5% acceptance rate for regular decision. You can see the value. This just blows my mind!
I'm seeing Emory on here – I'll tell you a fun story. I had a student. We looked at the Emory qualifications. He was right in there on the lower end. And I knew (just from my experience) he wasn't going to get in [by] regular decision. I knew it was a reach. It was a very much a reach school for him – very, very much.
But we thought, “You know what, let's do early decision. Let's go for it!” We worked all summer on the essays. We were meticulous with the activities list and the letters of recommendation. And we worked so hard… we got in! It was a reach school, and I was so excited for him! I truly believe that it was the early decision application that helped him get in. (His family knows that as well – and we're so happy that that happened.)
Anthony Su: I'm gonna emphasize one other thing, because we're also including this “percent of class.” [The class] is being basically filled up by the early decision students. [At] a place like Cornell, more than half the seats have been taken by the early decision pool.
Kelly Pofahl: Oh, yes!
Anthony Su: The ED group, of course, tends to be a smaller pool of applicants compared to the regular decision group – otherwise you can't really have stats like this – but of course Cornell is going to be a little bit more selective in the regular decision pool, given that half the spots have been taken up already. And of course, if you're looking at even a place like NYU – the 67% was estimated, but Emory: 56 and a half percent. Northwestern: 53%.
These schools are going to take a large chunk of the students that they know that this is this top school. This is where these students really want to come. Of course the school is, in a way. incentivized to take these students. They’re going to be strong achievers, and are already very interested in coming to the school.
Kelly Pofahl: It is interesting to think about: it's not the majority of students who are applying, either. There are such a small group that are applying ED – because of the restrictions. That they're filling half their class up… that blows my mind to think that that's the case: 50%!
Where is ED the right choice?
So when is ED the right choice? We talked about this earlier: at ILUMIN I always help my students know. We have information about this. We have information about each college (and, what high school they are from). And what their GPA and test scores are. Not just that, but, “Do they have leadership? Have they impacted the community in any way?”
So we're able to assess their application and their résumé – and then we also have all of the information about the colleges, and what the average GPA and test scores are of each college. We always want to make sure that the students are in the range of accepted students from the prior year. If so, we're happy to do the ED choice – if they also can afford it, and if it's a school that they really have strong reasons why they want to go there.
A student like I was talking about – my Emory student – it was a reach school for him. He knew he was a tiny bit below the average. But he was okay with being rejected. He knew, “This is a reach school. I'd be so excited if I got in, and I will go – but if I don't, it's okay.” And he knew that he couldn't apply again regular decision. You're giving up the chance [if you apply ED].
Basically, you want to make sure that you're in at least the top 25% of the applicant pool to do early decision. But there are other factors that come into play as well – that we at ILUMIN can assess from the beginning. We don't just say, “You're not in the top 25%.” We look at so many things! (Like I already talked about.)
What is important?
Kelly Pofahl: I love my job – because of the unpredictability of this process! Sometimes I feel there's no rhyme or reason. But I do have faith in the process. And it's not always just about GPA and test scores. They are very, very important, but there are other factors that admissions looks at.
Course rigor (APs + community college courses)
Kelly Pofahl: Some of them are your course rigor – that you have chosen at your high school. (If your high school doesn't offer AP classes, admissions will know that from the council report – so that's okay. Admissions is going to judge your application based on what's available to you.)
My students always say, “Should I take AP classes in 12th grade? Because, at the UCs, they're not even gonna weigh those into my GPA! And it doesn't really matter.” And I say, “No. They want to see that you are taking the maximum course rigor that you can handle, and that you can be successful with!”
They do look at, “What AP classes have you taken?” And, “Have you been successful?” Course rigor – very important!
Essays
Kelly Pofahl: Your essays are very important! In the Common App you write a “personal statement” – and you don't want to write about your trip to Africa, or someone dying (a distant relative), or your sports injury. Those are essays that have been done over and over and over and over! However, if you did have one of those experiences that really impacted you to see the world in a different way, and really changed your life… you can do those. But you want to tell a unique story about yourself – that will jump off the page to these admissions people – in your essays.
And, by the way, there are so many essays [in college applications]! There are essays on how you're going to fit into the community. There are essays on challenges that you've overcome. And there are essays on writing a letter to your future roommate. The essays can really, really add up!
At ILUMIN we take these essays on: we start early (we have essay boot camps in June), we have graphic organizers and outlines, and we have all of these brainstorming worksheets… we spend so much time on these essays. So very important!
Letters of recommendation + interviews
Kelly Pofahl: Letters of recommendation are extremely important. You want to start asking for those early.
[For] the interview process… A lot of the schools will have alumni come interview the students, or even sometimes current graduate students. I don't have strong interview training skills… so we have an expert at ILUMIN who works with all the students who have interviews. And I just saw so much growth in the students!
So interviews are important, [and] the letters of recommendation.
Demonstrated interest
Kelly Pofahl: This is so true – for some schools. I'll tell you one: one is Tulane. I saw a lot of students – friends of mine from Southern California that had students – who did not get into Tulane with a 4.8 [GPA] or something.
The students who got in formed a personal relationship with the admissions counselors! They stayed in touch. They opened every email. They went to webinars. They worked so hard to let admissions know that Tulane is their number one school!
You can find out which schools consider demonstrated interest. You can Google the name of the school with the words “common data set.” So, “Tulane common data set,” or, “Tulane 2022 common data set.” You will see a chart, and it will say “demonstrated interest” – and it will either have a check, or it won't have a check.
Some schools do not consider that. I believe the UCs don't consider demonstrated interest. Is that right, Anthony? Would you agree with that?
Anthony Su: Yeah. They have too many applicants!
Kelly Pofahl: Some of the smaller private schools – I know the school my daughter goes to – [consider demonstrated interest] 100%! We went to webinars. We opened emails. We sent emails. We called. You don't want to call and bug anyone – but you want to form relationships, if they're welcoming it!
Major selection
Kelly Pofahl: Another thing I've learned over the last couple years is major selection. This is one of the most important things. There are some majors that are very impacted and competitive – such as computer science. Such as engineering. Such as the life sciences: biology, biomed…
We think it's very important to have a balanced list. It's okay to apply to some “reach” schools, but you always want to have those target schools and safety schools. (And we are experts at helping with that!)
Sometimes we ask students to consider alternate majors. You can put “computer science” down for your major, but maybe put “data science” or “applied math” as your alternate major. We work with students very carefully on the major selection – and the focus of the application.
Final thoughts
Find the right fit school for you FIRST!
Kelly Pofahl: I truly believe that there is a fit for everybody.
In the process, it can get messy. Students get rejections. But then they get acceptances! And sometimes students don't get into their number one school that they think is perfect for them – but they get into their second choice. And then they really start researching the program, and they go to the campus, and they look at the clubs on campus… and I feel like, [with] all the students that I've worked with, everyone has found their perfect fit!
And there has been disappointment – absolutely! But in the end, it just works out. It really does! It works out really well if you have someone helping you (because I know there are students in California who aren't getting in the majority of the schools they're applying to). If you do it correctly – and you're working with someone, and you have support, and you're smart about your school list – you will find your perfect fit!
Do you have anything to add to that, Anthony?
Anthony Su: My final thought is the “right fit school” is a whole separate webinar topic! So stay tuned: we're probably gonna go talk about that.
I will mention that we've talked about ED and EA just from the stats [and] from the deadlines today. We haven't talked about how you actually research a school for students. How do you actually find out, “Is this a good fit school? Is this the right community for me? Does the school have the right programs, resources, the right pathway – if I'm interested in this career?”
All of those things are still going to be extremely critical, thinking about early decision – and early action, to an extent. But [for] early decision (because it is binding) I think it’s much more critical that we answer this question. So stay tuned for that webinar topic.
Kelly Pofahl: I always say (this is kind of cliché) the right school for you is the school that wants you! If you fill out your application that really shows you: who you are, and your voice, and your interests, and your passions… and they don't want you? Then it's not the right school for you!
Maybe that's cliché – but I feel like there is a school for everybody!
Thank you!
Kelly Pofahl: If you have any further questions that we haven't answered, I do free consultations – and so do other educational consultants at ILUMIN. A lot of times I'll sit on Zoom for 30 minutes with a family – and I'll answer all their questions! I'll give them some tips. And we love meeting students and families.
Here's the contact information – the website, our email, [and] our phone number:
Anthony will probably be the one to answer the phone or answer your email – and then he will help you set up a free consultation. And we really look forward to meeting you all!
And we're happy to answer questions right now, as well.
Anthony Su: Yeah, we'll go to Q&A now.
Q&A
Anthony Su: There was a question about GPA consideration. How critical is GPA – if it's not going to be as high as the [average for the] school that I'm considering for early decision or early action?
Kelly Pofahl: I think it's pretty important. It depends – and every situation is, of course, different. I would have to know what school, and what GPA.
We have had some stories where the student’s GPA might be lower, but the test scores are really high – or vice versa: the test scores are lower, and the GPA is really high. So it depends!
Here's just an example: if you're applying to Yale, if you have a 3.5, they're going to expect something really outstanding from you! They're gonna expect near-perfect test scores, or you're an Olympian, or you created an app that cured cancer or something! You have to have something compelling for these top schools if you don't have that GPA.
But what do you think, Anthony, if someone's on the lower end? To me, if they're in the range of accepted students, usually to me that's okay – if they have a strong application.
Anthony Su: Yeah, in the range definitely works. I think the thing is: you definitely should not have like a 3.4 [if] the average GPA is 3.8. Early decision doesn't work miracles there!
Kelly Pofahl: Unless there's another situation where it's an audition-based program, or they're an athlete, or they're a legacy. Sometimes there's something else that might help!
But just in general, like you said, a 3.4 isn't going to cut it if it's a 3.9/4.0 average.
Anthony Su: This is a good question for the next one: [one] problem of early decision is that you don't get any financial support. Can you tell us the downsides of early decision [besides that]?
Kelly Pofahl: So I did have a student this year get into their early decision school, and this is what happened. (It's really interesting.) The student found out very early in December. The student is a 17-year-old boy, and found out he got into a school kind of far away from home. And then he was so scared – because all of his other friends were going to UC schools, and he [was] accepted [by] this top-25 school early decision. And so he got really really nervous.
One thing that happens is you don't get to find out all the other places you got into. When you get into an ED school, you don't get to find out if you got into UCLA or Berkeley or any of those schools. That's something: you never will know where you got in, because you signed a contract that you would withdraw [your applications from other schools].
That's one thing that I can think of.
Anthony Su: Yeah.
The major downside, of course, [is] financial support: whatever the school offers you, to an extent you have to accept. There's a little bit of a leeway in negotiating with the school. And there are always some students who may not be able to afford it – and can (somehow or other) get out of the early decision agreement
The second major one is you don't know the other schools you got into. You need to withdraw [your applications from other schools] the moment you know you got into that [ED] school – and you never know [if you would have gotten into them].
If there's a student who doesn't have a dream school in mind – is open to a lot of these schools, and wants to know the results, and is interested in this… Maybe they're also hesitant on the binding aspect. It's totally fine to not do early decision. It's just one other path.
Kelly Pofahl: Absolutely.
Anthony Su: Any other questions? We have a smaller group today.
Kelly Pofahl: I would say – just based on your last comment, Anthony – of all my students last year, I would say only 10% of the students did early decision. I don't want to imply that every single student's doing it! It is very important. It's like getting married! You're committing – and you can't get out of it! It's happening!
So I don't want to imply that everyone's doing it, and you should do it. But at the same time, 99% of my students had early action schools. And (since no one asked a question) I do want to say it's a very stressful time for students. It's so nice to get those acceptances in December – so the student can pin it on the fridge: you got into college, yay! And the student, at least, knows they're going to college. That can really be a bonus of doing early action.
Anthony Su: Yeah. It's also great if you got into a school that you're very fond of in your early action round. Maybe you can also adjust your school list a little bit, if you say, “I know I have University of Michigan that I can consider! Maybe I can take a look at some of the others.”
Kelly Pofahl: Right.
Anthony Su: There’s a quick question about, “How many schools would you recommend for a student to apply to?” Kelly, do you have a thought about that?
Kelly Pofahl: We will probably say the same thing: it depends.
The UC schools (as most people know) are just one application. So I, as an ILUMIN consultant, want my California students applying to all of the UC schools. Because, in the past years, they have been very, very competitive! Even my top top achievers – especially if you're from Silicon Valley, it's very competitive. I want them applying to all of them. So there's that. (I count that as one application, even though it's many more than that.)
And then… this is going to sound like a lot of schools, but I think (in addition to the UCs) I would do four or five more reach, four or five targets, and four or five [safeties]. That probably sounds like a lot!
Anthony Su: I would say anywhere from 10 to 15 at this point. You could skirt up to around 20. There we'd want to help you cut down a little bit… but definitely no more than 20!
Kelly Pofahl: Again, it depends. My own daughter was doing musical theater – and I can't even say out loud how many schools she applied to, because it's absurd. (The acceptance rate into the musical theater programs [is ridiculously low] – they only take 20 kids and they get 3,800 applications!)
So some students – I'm sure there are artsy students out there – have to apply to way more schools. There are always those exceptions.
But, typically – if you're coming in as a California student, and you want to get into a great school – I would say 12 is a good number, plus the UCs.
Anthony Su: This is a great question: “I heard that if a student withdraws from an early decision acceptance (for any reason), then that high school will have a disadvantage – because there's a track record of students withdrawing from the college. Is that true?”
Kelly Pofahl: I've heard the same thing.
If the counselor signed off that the student would go to the school, the counselor is putting their integrity on the line. And I've heard the same thing! (I don't know the back-end situation.)
Anthony Su: An early decision withdrawal without a proper reason is already relatively rare – and it makes sense that a situation like that is kept relatively quiet. But if there's a pattern of that at a particular school, why would the admissions officers look at that school particularly favorably?
And schools are known to have these micro-patterns for certain high schools. Say, Carnegie Mellon particularly likes Paly [Palo Alto High School] students this year. Things like that: they are known to have these small patterns as well.
Any other questions? [There’s] also our next webinar – talking about how to build a college list. I think there we'll go a bit more into finding a “good fit” school, trying to figure out how to prioritize schools on your list…
Kelly Pofahl: That's the fun part!
Anthony Su: So definitely feel free to register for that.
If there are no more questions, of course you can reach out to us at uh info@ilumineducation.com. And we'll also send out a recording so that everyone can come back and reference this as well – if you have any questions. Feel free to reach out if we can be of any help.
So, Kelly, I want to say thank you for your time as well.
Kelly Pofahl: Thank you – this was so fun! I love talking about college admissions.
Thanks, Anthony. Talk to you later. Bye bye, everybody!