Webinar Transcript: Live Q&A with Emory University Associate Dean of Undergraduate Admissions

We had the privilege of sitting down recently with Giles Eady, the Associate Dean of Undergraduate Admissions at Emory University, to talk about current admissions trends and the unique challenges and trends within higher education in the year ahead.

Elton Lin: Hey, good evening everybody. It's a certainly a good evening here on the West Coast – 7 p.m. On the East Coast it is a little bit later!

So thank you so much for joining us tonight on our webinar series. My name is Elton Lin. I'm the CEO and founder of ILUMIN Education. We are a college counseling firm and life coaching firm based here in the Silicon Valley/San Francisco Bay Area.

We have the great pleasure of having Giles Eady, who is the associate dean of undergraduate admissions at Emory University. And he is gracious enough to come on with us tonight and sacrifice his late night on the East Coast to spend some time with us – and share a little bit about the admissions process at Emory. We're just excited to have you. Thank you again for coming on with us!

When we last spoke, Giles, it was just after quarantine and the world was in great flux. A lot of things have changed since even when we first spoke!

If you don't mind, I'll give you a chance to just introduce yourself. And then we can dive right in to what's going on at Emory.

Giles Eady: All right. Well, good evening everyone. I'm Giles Eady, associate dean of undergraduate admission at Emory University in the lovely city of Atlanta, Georgia. This is going on my thirteenth year in college admissions, seven of those being at Emory.

My recruitment territories for Emory are the Bay Area, California. So Bay Area people, you'll see me! And if there's anyone from Hawaii, you're in my territory. Any U.S. territory – and also the Caribbean – you're part of my territory as well.

Elton Lin: You got the best places in the United States, Giles!

Giles Eady: You know, it's fun, but sometimes, when you got to go – I've done it – from Jamaica to San Francisco… I was just really tired.

Elton Lin: Beach to beach!

Well, fantastic, Giles. You've been in admissions for a long time… How long have you been at Emory specifically?

Giles Eady: Seven years at Emory.

Elton Lin: Okay, terrific. So you've seen, actually, quite an evolution of students who've come in. What have been some of the biggest changes in the last seven years?

Giles Eady: I think, for the worse, in the last seven years, I feel like the anxiety of students has increased. That's something that I’ve noticed every year, and something that each year I've worked to combat – because it's certainly not healthy and not beneficial to the college admissions process.

But, aside from that, just how much of the process is done online! When I first started in admissions, we still were reading paper applications. Gradually, over the years, we decreased the paper. Now we're solely electronic with everything.

I think those are the two major evolutions I've seen.

Elton Lin: Got it. Let me – before we get into more questions with Giles – I just want to share with you all: if you have questions, go ahead and post them in the Q&A box at the bottom. We're going to answer all the questions at the very end. So we're going to have this flowing conversation with Giles throughout the next thirty plus minutes, and then we'll come back at the very end, and whatever questions pop up, we will throw them at Giles and see what he thinks. Go ahead and post those questions at any time, and Anthony will come back and help us go through all the questions that you’ve posted. So don't hesitate to post at any time. We'll come back at the very end.

Okay, Giles. This has probably been one of the craziest years with regards to admissions. Tons of changes. Students have not been able to visit campuses. Can you tell us a little bit about this past admission cycle? What are some of the biggest changes you're seeing? Tell us a little bit about your experience this past year.

Giles Eady: This year we had a banner year in admissions. We had more applicants this year than we've ever had in the history of Emory University. Two years ago we had 30,000 applications. Last year we dropped a little bit to like 28,000. But this year, we ended with about 34,000 applications. So it certainly made for a busier admissions season on our side!

For the admissions counselors, I think the biggest change for us was reading remotely. This year we did the whole admission process remotely. And saw that it worked very well. I anticipate a variation of that will continue in future admissions cycles.

But with the students, certainly, since we've been in the pandemic, we've gotten better with our online content and online offerings. We've really made them engaging. Like we have a really good Instagram show that airs every other Thursday. Two of my colleagues hosted, and it has just really taken off, to the point that they are really looking at turning it into a podcast. So the pandemic has definitely made us innovative in a lot of ways.

And as far as the students are concerned, this year we saw a good number of students that did submit test scores, but not everyone, because we were test-optional this year. And I anticipate next year we're going to be test-optional again. But I anticipate, next year, that the number of students with test scores is going to decrease, due to the fact that we didn't have a lot of tests offered this year. But it didn't affect our reading process. It actually was a seamless read without the test scores. It was: if you had it, great, if you didn't, it was fine.

So those are the biggest changes, I think, that this year has brought.

But certainly we're in a better place now. We're going to be back in-person in the fall. Emory is one of the institutions that's requiring everyone to be vaccinated. So you'll be vaccinated to attend Emory. But we're planning to be back in full swing in August!

Elton Lin: That's exciting. I'm sure students are eager to return. We have one of our interns who's an Emory student, and she's eager to get back to Atlanta, there's no question!

Let's go back to the test-optional aspect. You were mentioning, I think, there were a lot of families this past year who are wondering… There was always this feeling that, “Do students who submit test scores fare better than those who don't?” If there’s a student who has a test score and a student who doesn’t have the test score, how do you sort between those two applicants? Maybe you can share a little bit about how the read might have adjusted for those kind of variations that existed this past year but they didn't exist prior to this past year?

Giles Eady: Well, for starters, test scores have never been a make-or-break thing for our application process. So not having them really didn't change very much how we read.

Really, if I read an application and the student has test scores, great. If they're there, I'll take them into consideration. If they're not there, then that's just not a thing I have to consider. But I'll use every other tool that I have to make an admission decision. And we see that a lot of the students that we did accept without test scores – they kind of fell in line with the kind of student we would normally admit to the university.

So we're going to be test-optional again, and the conversations are being had right now on campus to be test-optional indefinitely. Testing, over the years – we've learned that it's just subjective. A lot of times students’ scores are dependent upon the kind of preparation that their families can afford to give them on the test. And not always are they the most reliable example of their aptitude. So, yeah. That's where we're at with testing.

Elton Lin: What I hear you saying is that test scores were not an overly critical aspect of the admission review anyways, but when students submitted test scores – and perhaps they submitted higher test scores – they were already in line with the type of student you're already looking for. In effect, it really didn't make as big of a difference at all.

And maybe I can throw out some anecdotal things that are out there in the media. Maybe some positives and negatives of looking at test scores. There were certainly a good number of top universities – including Emory – that reported back saying that test-optional opened up the applicant pool to more students who perhaps would not have applied. And, in so doing, they were able to increase their first gen and perhaps underrepresented student communities. And there was a positive aspect to not admitting tests.

But there are also other numbers that are floating out there. Jeff Selingo recently reported that Emory admitted upwards of 17% of students who applied with tests. And those who applied without tests were admitted somewhere around the eight or nine percent rate. I'm not sure where he got those numbers. I think those are certainly debatable. But regardless of Emory, there's a lot of speculation with regards to a lot of top schools – that they do favor test scores, and the admit rates for those who submit tests tend to be higher than those without tests.

What are your thoughts? How do you make sense of that conjecture?

Giles Eady: Well, I think you were onto something. The students that submitted test scores submitted, typically, really high test scores. So those were already very competitive to start with. Along with, you know, those students who tend to submit really high test scores also have really high grades as well. So they're still going to be pretty admissible students.

As far as statistics, I think sometimes people will look at a statistic that's reported and say, “This is my chance of this happening or this not happening for me.” And I can tell you, we're not! As admission counselors, we're not sitting there and taking a tally of how many students had test scores versus how many didn't. Those numbers are just, when we finished the admission process, that's what we came up to. But it wasn't a thing of we're intentionally trying to admit this number or not admit this number.

And personally, if a student had test scores this year, and especially if they took the test in 2020 during the pandemic, I was a little suspicious of it. Just being honest. A lot of test sites were closed. And, honestly, you were risking your life to go take the test. That wasn't worth it to us.

Like I said in the beginning, testing has never been a make-or-break thing. And I don't want people to stress out about that. Because there are so many other things about your application that mean more than test scores!

Elton Lin: Yeah, I believe you. If you want to really parse the data – if you really want to get behind it – definitely the students who are submitting test scores, they're self-selecting to submit their own test scores! And if they believe that their test scores are going to be an asset, then by nature those test scores are probably going to be pretty high. And then, in so doing, they're going to be an asset to their application. And if they're self-selecting, deciding not to submit test scores, then that's in itself perhaps going into another pool.

To hear from your mouth especially, because you are actually reading applications. And saying that if you submit test scores, you'll consider it, and if you don't submit test scores, you're just looking at everything else in totality. You're not necessarily favoring students with test scores or without?

Giles Eady: Not at all. We’re not favoring students with test scores or not.

Elton Lin: And then let me ask you. There was one extra data point – the test score. You were looking at grades, test scores, and your overall profile. And now that there's no test score, what are you paying more attention to? Where are you setting your sights on?

Giles Eady: I don't see that we're paying more attention in another area, because I still feel like not a whole lot of attention was put on the test score to start with. We put more attention before on other things in the application. What gives me more confidence in the student’s academic ability is how well they've done in their courses over the span of four years, and the kind of rigor they've had in their courses. That's been very helpful. And then the essays are really helpful in getting to know the student.

And if we do have test scores, it's like, “Okay, they're there.” If they're not there then, okay, but if they're there, it's just, “All right, they're test scores, cool.” Just don't score like a 10 on the ACT!

Elton Lin: Yeah, if you're submitting a 10 on the ACT, then that certainly could be a liability!

Giles Eady: Yeah, that could be a liability! But if we have a test score there, great. If we don't, that's fine. We really have always spent more time on everything else on the application.

Elton Lin: I think, perhaps, the key insight that you're sharing – which is consistent with a lot of what admission reps have been saying for the past year – is that the key indicators are still grades, the level of rigor, and how you’re performing in relation to that level of rigor. I think there's a lot of agreement across a lot of universities that that's still the primary, most effective way of determining whether a student will be successful in college, right?

Giles Eady: Absolutely.

Elton Lin: Okay. I'm sure there are gonna be some questions that come up at the end with regards to that, so maybe we can go into some other stuff and then we'll come back to it.

So, if you don't mind, I think there are certainly a lot of parents or students who are new to the process. Can you share a little bit about the Emory admissions process? Once an application comes in, what happens from there?

Giles Eady: We have four application periods when we accept applications. We have an Early Decision 1 pool – the deadline is November 1. Then, after the Early Decision 1 deadline, we have our merit scholarship deadline. To be considered for merit scholarships, you have to submit the application by November 15. That can be an early decision or regulation application – it just has to be in by November 15. After that, we have Early Decision 2, which is January 1. And then, lastly, a regular season deadline, which is also January 1.

When an application is received by our office, our processing team compiles it. If we have any test scores or any other supplemental information about you, that's already in our system. It gets uploaded to the application. We have a really good system that will match to see if we have supplemental information for you. So it’s important – because I know some students will go by two different names and such – to make sure that you're consistent with your name on your applications, your test scores, and your transcripts. All those things. When they're different, it can cause a little delay in us matching those things up.

But once we're ready, the application is complete, and we're ready to read. We read in our office, using the committee-based evaluation model – so there are two sets of eyes on the application in the first read. One of those persons is going to be the regional rep, because they have context for the area that you're applying from, and contacts in your school. And then another counselor from another territory will read the things that are non-specific to your school. From there, a first read decision is made.

We have about five different committees to work on those decisions. So decisions could change up or down, left, right, whatever we want to do. But with the committees – we have about five of those before an actual decision is sent.

So that's how we go about it.

Elton Lin: What are some of those committees?

Giles Eady: We'll look at students by academic interest, because we want to make sure we have a good balance of all the majors on campus. We can't admit a class of only natural science students! I think the humanities and social sciences would be very unhappy if we did that. So there's a committee for that. There are also regional committees – like looking at the entire West Coast. Or there might be special interest committees – like if you are an artist. If you are an artist, we might look at you in another committee.

So that's an example of the kinds of committees we have.

Elton Lin: Got it. So basically it’s focusing on specific aspects that are unique to that particular student, and giving that student a fair review. If there's a portfolio, then having that particular committee…

Giles Eady: Sure, there's a fair review of their application. And something that I need to add with that, too, is that an application will likely be in at least three different committees, because we're going to be looking at it from a lot of different lenses.

Elton Lin: Got it. And then who makes the final decision? What happens after it goes through that initial read, and then it goes through the committees? Then what ends up happening?

Giles Eady: That's the decision.

Elton Lin: Is it by you? Or is that the committee? The committees are making a decision? They're saying yay or nay, or “waitlist”?

Giles Eady: Yep, and then that's it. And the decision is sent from there.

Elton Lin: All right. Okay.

Why don't we transition over. Certainly you've seen a lot of students, and every school tends to… I don't want to say “favor” a particular type of student, but there is a certain student that really does well at Emory. So if you don't mind sharing, what does a viable applicant look like for Emory?

Giles Eady: Well, I think characteristically Emory students are very collaborative. We like to see a student who is collaborative in nature – not necessarily one who is purely academically competitive for themselves, but they also have the public good in mind as well. I think that is the hallmark about Emory. You have to be a good person to come to Emory. You have to really focus a lot of time and attention on making sure that you're a good person.

And then after that, certainly a student who is academically competitive. We want to see that they've challenged themselves within their school curriculum. If their school curriculum offers an AP curriculum, they've done that. Or if their school offers an IB curriculum, they've done that. If the school offers neither, we want to see that they have taken the most advanced courses available to them in that school.

But I think when they get to Emory, Emory students are typically very busy people. They're passionate about something, and eager to expose the campus to whatever that passion is. But if you know nothing else, know that we want good people. Literally, we want good people.

Elton Lin: Got it. And majors… You sort of alluded to this in the committee conversation, to the effect that you're not wanting to admit, like, all natural science students. But to go a little bit deeper, does your major sway the application process at all?

Giles Eady: Not really. We're not impacted in any way – like some of the UC schools are. Just in our process, we just have to make sure there's a good balance of everyone. And it's not to say that natural science is our largest application pool! Not to say that, if you aren't a perfect student in the natural science pool, you won't get into Emory. Again, our process involves so many other things to make decisions. We just like to make sure that we have a good balance of everyone represented in the class.

Elton Lin: Got it. And perhaps this is something that we didn't talk about last year, probably because we were going in quarantine! But I know there's an option to apply to Emory and also apply for Oxford College. Can you share a little bit about that process as well, and perhaps what makes the Oxford College experience different that going to Emory?

Giles Eady: Yeah. So we have two campuses that you can choose from at Emory in your first two years: Oxford College or Emory College. Oxford College is Emory's first campus – so we actually moved to the Atlanta campus a little bit later.

When a student decides to apply to one campus or the other, it is read by that regional representative. So I will read applications from the Bay Area, and from U.S. territories, Hawaii, and the Caribbean, of anyone who's looking at Oxford as well.

Oxford, I think, is better suited for someone who wants a smaller environment – in that the average class size at Oxford is about ten students. It's only 500 students we bring in a year at Oxford College. They might want that small, traditional, liberal arts feel. That would be someone who might consider Oxford. Emory College – if you are someone who is wanting a little bit of a larger campus, and wanting research opportunities, you might consider Emory College.

But, contrary to popular belief, one is not lesser than the other. We're looking for very similar things in both campuses. In fact, the average grade point average for admitted students this past year at Emory college was like 3.8, and at Oxford college it was 3.75. Not much of a difference in the kind of student that attends either campus – it's just what kind of field you want.

So when you apply to Emory, you can apply to both campuses, or you can apply to one or the other. We don't tell you which campus to apply to. You tell us.

Elton Lin: Got it. And just for clarification, with Oxford College you're doing your first two years at the Oxford College campus, and then you're completing the last two years at Emory, right?

Giles Eady: Yes, on the Atlanta campus. It's all Emory! Oxford is one of the colleges at Emory University. But yes, you spend the first two years taking your classes and living at Oxford, and then after those two years you come over to the Atlanta campus and continue on into your major.

But we have a shuttle system that gets back and forth between both campuses, so if there's a resource on either campus that you want to utilize, you certainly may do that. It's not us versus them. It's all one Emory – just two different versions of it.

Elton Lin: Got it. Certainly a student of mine who did go to Oxford College – started at Oxford College – thought the experience was very analogous to other liberal arts colleges, where there was a lot of freedom to take classes in all different disciplines, and really room to explore. Perhaps that type of student would benefit from that kind of experience, and perhaps that might be a good thing?

Giles Eady: Yeah, certainly that does occur at Oxford. It does occur on the Atlanta campus as well. I just think that with the Oxford campus, with the number of people there, it just makes for a more intimate experience. So I feel like stronger relationships are built between students – and also students and professors – on the Oxford campus. It's just you can't help but do that!

Elton Lin: Got it.

Why don't we go into the great enigma of the college essay? Certainly students rack their brains on what they can write on that college essay, and are often thinking about what admissions readers are looking for: whether it is an array of their achievements, or some kind of soaring narrative. Maybe you can shed some light on what you're looking for with regards to a college essay, and maybe your advice on how students should approach that?

Giles Eady: The simple answer to what I'm looking for in a college essay is: you. It's really you. I don't want to read an application that is not genuinely you.

Literally, that essay helps us to get a sense of you, the person. So it needs to be authentic to who you are. There's a saying that I've always had in college admissions that if it reads like a 45-year-old, a 45-year-old probably wrote it! So make sure that you're being true to yourself.

There's not a thing that we’re looking for to see like, “Okay, if you said this in the essay, you're good!” No. I genuinely want to know who you are. I think a well-written essay is one in which a student maybe talks about a belief or an experience they had, and they tie in how it's made them the person they are today.

After reading that essay, I want to get a decent sense of what kind of student you'll be in the classroom. What kind of conversations you'll facilitate in the classroom. Even what kind of roommate you’ll be to someone at Emory. So that definitely gives us context.

I tell students, “I don't need you to tell me stuff in the essay that I can read in your extracurricular section or I can Google about you. Tell me something that is different about you!” And everyone has a story, because everyone is different.

Elton Lin: What are common mistakes that you see students making on the essay? Perhaps one of them is talking a lot about something that's already on your resume – and it's like you're wasting that space. What are some other common mistakes you see students make on essays?

Giles Eady: I think all the common mistakes center around proofreading – like spelling errors. We're not the grammar police, so we're not looking to be like, “That's a hanging identifier right there that they didn't use correctly!” We're not going to go through and do that. But if they're glaringly apparent mistakes, it’s obvious.

Proofreading also catches things. I tell the story of a student who applied to Emory – I read this application in my first year at Emory – and the student was talking about their interest in public health and how interested they were in it. And I'm getting excited, like, “Oh man, public health is kind of what we do at Emory!” Like, this could be a decent fit. I kept reading, and read, at the end, this person said, “And that's why there's no other place for me to go to college than the University of Alabama.”

So it was like, okay, you literally said in the essay that there's no other place you'd go to college than the University of Alabama. So if we admit you to Emory, you can't go to the University of Alabama. And I want you to go where you're going to be happy.

Proofreading catches things like that.

Elton Lin: That's a bit of a fatal error, right? I mean, you cannot in good conscience take that student, right?

Giles Eady: I won't say a “fatal error,” but you have told me what your true intentions are.

Elton Lin: Fair enough. You have to take them by their word.

Giles Eady: Yeah.

Elton Lin: And you're not the University of Alabama admissions officer.

Giles Eady: No.

Elton Lin: Indeed. Terrific. We talked a little bit about rigor and course schedules and APs, and you’ve been very clear on testing not being make-or-break – it's just one part, and if it's not included, it's really not an issue.

And let me ask: this past year, you had 34,000 applicants – more than a ten percent increase in the number of applicants you had from the previous year. Did you waitlist a lot of students? And how do you anticipate the waitlist evolving over the course of the next few months?

Giles Eady: We definitely had a healthy waitlist pool, because we weren't certain – and we still aren't certain – what the process will look like after May 1. There are a lot of variables out there this year, namely still the pandemic. Will students be ready to travel from California to come to Georgia to go to college? Because we have seen in some places that students are opting to stay closer to home. So certainly there's a healthy waitlist.

Now I saw a question earlier about it, but we really aren't certain just yet if we're going to use that waitlist. We will likely know something about that later on this month, or maybe the beginning of next. But I'll just say, things are very tight right now. So there could be a chance that the waitlist is not used at all.

Elton Lin: I see. So even though it's past May 1 now, even now it's still in flux?

Giles Eady: Yeah.

Elton Lin: You're not really sure how many students are going to be pulled off the waitlist. But you're implying – and not declaring or decreeing – but your sense is that it's pretty packed and perhaps there may not be a lot pulled off the waitlist?

Giles Eady: Yeah. I would manage expectations, in that things are very tight right now.

Elton Lin: All right.

Gile Eady: I just really don't know if we're going to use it. It could be, again, a very strong chance that it doesn't happen at all.

Elton Lin: Okay. That's the inside tip for this one right now.

Okay, super. I’ve got other topics, but I know we have a lot of questions, so I want to give our audience an opportunity to ask them. I'm going to invite Anthony back in. And, Anthony, I know that we had asked for some questions early, so definitely there are some people who submitted questions prior to the event. Perhaps we can tackle some of those, and then go through some of the questions that have been posted in the Q&A?

Anthony Su: Sure, definitely. I can definitely ask a few. And I'm trying to keep it in a theme. Appreciate everyone's enthusiasm of having all those different questions. I'm trying to get through all the topics. I'm trying to combine things as I go. So if I can’t get your exact question, I do apologize, but I'm trying to keep all those themes together.

Definitely one of the questions that came – I think this is the one that came early – a lot of different schools are virtual, or some are doing hybrid, and they're wondering how that's gonna impact the letters of recommendation from teachers. In general, you would want to go with a teacher that has been able to meet the student in person and has seen how they interact in the classroom, compared to one who has only been through Zoom, right? How would you navigate that in regards to the admissions process, and how would you read a teacher’s recommendation there?

Giles Eady: If I were a student in the admissions process this year, I wouldn't worry too terribly much about maybe having a teacher that doesn't know a whole lot about you – because that's everyone. Everyone has been virtual. Everyone has been in this space. If you want to get other teachers to write recommendations for you, that's totally fine, but we're aware.

And, quite honestly, recommendations can vary depending on the school. For instance, if you attend a very large school in the Bay Area – and there are quite a few of them, where there are thousands of kids at the school – it's going to be very rare that you have a very personal recommendation to start with. Now, if you attend a smaller school where people can really know you better, then certainly that recommendation is going to be a lot different. But I wouldn't worry too terribly much about who writes the recommendation. Just make sure that whoever does write your recommendation writes positive things about you.

Elton Lin: Have you read – I'm sure you have – some negative things from recommenders?

Giles Eady: Yes I have, certainly. To the point where you're like, “Wow, they really didn't vet this person out!”

Anthony Su: That's a shocker. Ask for good recommendation letters, not just a recommendation letter!

Giles Eady: Yeah.

Anthony Su: There’s a question – I think in anticipation from people deferring from last year – about students coming in with a gap year, or coming in as a sophomore or junior; things like that. They're wondering, given that admissions is already so competitive, was that a factor in this? And can they more or less expect that admissions continue to be more competitive as we go through with every year?

Giles Eady: Well, as far as students that took gap years last year, it had no impact on this upcoming class that we enrolled at Emory. So it was not a factor at all.

As far as things being competitive, it really all depends on the number of people that apply. If we have the same number of students apply to Emory next year, it will probably be the same level of competitiveness. The available spots that we have at Emory are not changing; they're gonna stay the same. So it just really all depends on the number of applications that are received next year.

My gut sense is that we still will see a significant number of applications next year, being that we still will be test-optional next year. Also, the more that students are able to apply to colleges online, they tend to apply to a lot of colleges online. So I anticipate that we still will have a high number of applications next fall.

Anthony Su: Got it. And continuing with that thought, there were also parents or students asking about Early Decision compared to Regular Decision. I think someone was also mentioning a potential spring semester – entering at that time. Is there any difference in how you would read for example an ED applicant versus RD versus someone you might apply for spring or something like that?

Giles Eady: At Emory College, we don't accept students for spring semester. We only do fall admissions. This year, at Oxford College, we are piloting a spring admit, to see how it works out. If it works, then we may continue it. If not, we'll just go back to only fall admissions.

As far as early decision versus regular decision, I feel like a good early decision student is also a good regular decision student. It's just really a personal and family decision as to which application that you submit. An early decision application needs to be the application to the school that you want to attend the absolute most, because it's a binding decision. So if you are admitted, you've told the institution that you're coming.

But also as a family, with the financial piece of attending an institution, you're prepared. I won't say to fund the whole thing, because we're not expecting the average student to pay the whole thing, but you're prepared to be okay with what kind of aid is offered. Now in the event that, through our best efforts with financial aid and such, Emory is not feasible for you, we certainly can release you from that early decision application. And you can go from there.

And regular decision – if, as I jokingly say, if you want to date other colleges – that's the application to use. Because you can apply to as many regular decision application schools as you like.

But the application pool tends to be a little bit smaller in Early Decision than it is in regular. So there are more – I say more opportunities for admission. In regular decision the application pool swells. We probably started with 12,000 applications with early decision last year, and then when we came back from the winter holidays, we had another 22,000 that popped in. And you guys just don't know! From an admissions reader standpoint, it was like, “Oh, my gosh,” because we read every single application. So it caused me to do a lot of reading on off hours to make sure we got it done.

Elton Lin: It's obviously out there that the Early Decision admit rate is higher than the regular decision admit rate. I think that's why a lot of families are thinking about applying Early Decision. I think the key point that you made earlier is that, if you're going to do ED, you should be clear on your finances. You may not know what your financial aid package is going to be prior to applying to ED or getting that result. So you should be able to fluctuate with whatever financial package gets sent back.

However, a lot of families are thinking, “Hey, if I apply early decision, my chances are better.” And there's certainly enough out there that talks about the importance of yield when it comes to universities’ priorities. Is it to where somebody who's applying ED will have a better chance on the ED round than on the regular round?

Giles Eady: Yes and no. You have a better chance in that there are more opportunities for admission, because the class is not filled up at that point. But as I started to say, if you're a good early decision student, you're a good regular decision student as well. You can apply early decision, and if you're not academically competitive, if you're not a collaborative person, then early decision won't work out for you.

Chances increase because there are just more opportunities for admission, but not that we are saying that, “Oh, we have to admit this number,” or, “We're going to admit this number in early decision.” We don't go into any admissions process saying, “This is what we're going to do.” We look and see what the pool is – and that dictates what we do.

Elton Lin: I don't mean to harp on this, but only because there’s certainly enough written on it… There’s a lot of thought that, perhaps, athletes are getting recruited in the early round. Or, potentially, alumni children or legacy children might be coming in. Or maybe more first-gen and underrepresented students who are playing early might be admitted in that round. Are there any of those kinds of priorities that you're aware of, or that you think are present in that early round?

Giles Eady: No. We have legacies in every application period that we have. We have athletes in each one of them as well. So it's not a thing of we're favoring one group of people in any application pool.

The thing about Emory with athletics… Emory is a Division III athletics school. So there is no true recruiting of athletes to attend Emory, because there are no scholarships for athletics at Emory. So that's not a consideration for us – that we see an athlete that we automatically have to admit. No. We want to make sure you're a great student.

Anthony Su: We touched on this a little bit when talking about ED financial aid, but there were a lot of questions about scholarships – both need-based merit-based scholarships. Could you highlight that really quickly, Giles, how that fits in the process for admissions?

Gile Eady: Yes. With our need-based aid, the way it works at Emory is if you submit the FAFSA, as well as the CSS profile, you'll be considered for need-based aid.

At Emory we aim to meet a hundred percent of demonstrated need to attend. That does not mean that it’s loan-free to attend Emory. But we're gonna try our very best to limit the number of loans that you have to take out. We can offer a lot of grants that can help to cover the cost, or offset the cost. But, essentially, it is looking to see what it is you can afford, and whatever you can't afford, we try to come in and help you.

That only applies to domestic students. Students who are non-U.S. citizens are not eligible for that need-based aid. We do offer a little bit of need-based aid for international students, but it's not at the same level that we can for domestic students.

Now we've got need out the way, we'll talk about merit. We have a separate application deadline for merit-based scholarships. To be considered for a merit-based scholarship at Emory, you just have to check on the application that you want to be considered for Emory Scholars. That's our only merit scholarship program – and it applies to both Emory College and also Oxford College. And then you submit the application by November 15. You can be an ED1, ED2, or regular decision applicant, but you submit it by November 15.

We tend to notify our finalists in late February. We'll let you know ahead of time if you are a finalist. We will, hopefully this coming year, invite you back to campus to meet with us – we did it virtually this year – but hopefully we can invite you back to campus to meet with us, and then from there we determine the scholarship award.

Scholarships at Emory can range from half the cost of tuition to full tuition, room and board, and fees. And, again, they're applicable on both campuses. You can get this merit scholarship at Oxford College just like you can at Emory College.

Anthony Su: Awesome. I do want to talk about visiting campus, and I have a bunch of more fun questions, but I definitely want to talk about testing. Otherwise I think the audience will want to hear a little bit more about that.

There are a bunch of different attributes to consider, but I think one thing that's on a lot of uh parents’ minds – and also other consultants – is the data that a lot of these students can see: this middle 50% for test scores, whether it's SAT or ACT. And the common thought is, “Hey, if I'm in this range, I think it's helpful to submit.” Also one of the questions is, what would you recommend for students in that bottom 25%? Just don't submit it? Is it, if you're close, go ahead and turn it in? Do you want to see that additional data point? What would you recommend there?

Giles Eady: When we review applications we're not looking at that middle 50% to aid us in our decision-making process. That middle 50% number is a by-product of what happened when we read the applications. It's not a guide post for how we read.

Submitting a test score is totally up to you, because – as I said earlier – it's never a make-or-break thing. There have been students who have scored lower than the middle 50% – whom we did admit – who showed excellent trends in the testing. If they took the test multiple times, and they went up considerably each time, then that says the student really worked hard to do that and will likely work hard at Emory as well.

It's totally up to you to submit them or not. There are students who were within the middle 50%, and who were above it, who were admitted and who were not admitted as well. So, again, don't use the testing as your worthiness to even apply to Emory – because, again, it's not a make-or-break thing for us.

Elton Lin: I think this is probably in the minds of some of the people who are asking this question, because I feel like you've read enough applications to know that, if you've got a 10 on the ACT, perhaps don't send that, right? And you know some of the levers that play into this with regards to test scores.

Like, Anthony graduated from Gunn High School in Palo Alto, which is a very competitive high school. You're very familiar with it. And there are certainly a lot of students with high test scores. You can't admit everybody from Gunn High School, right? So, therefore, you submit a test score that might be at the 75th percentile, but perhaps what was restricting was because there are too many applicants from that high school, right? Whereas for the other high schools maybe it's a different barometer?

Giles Eady: Yeah. I mean, certainly, we see a lot of applicants every year from Gunn High School. And, quite honestly, everybody's got good grades. So academic competitiveness is a consideration, but in a space like Gunn, it's just like a check mark. Okay, good, they've got good grades and they've got the rigor – so we don't have to spend time dissecting that anymore.

It then goes into really, of all these applicants, who are gonna be the best fits at Emory. For, maybe, what they're interested in studying, or maybe the kind of personality they have. Who is gonna be a better fit at Emory?

So, yeah, from a place like Gunn we're gonna have a lot of applications. Just make sure that you're being yourself. You're being your true, authentic self – along with being academically competitive.

Anthony Su: I think it’s definitely helpful for parents and students to understand that there is no definitive “You've got to be in that middle 50%,” right? That there is all this additional context as well. And I think, similarly, when we were talking about the admissions between people that didn't submit tests versus people that did.

But another question on people's minds is this move by the UC system to go test free. I guess they're also wondering: is there any anticipation of that, or any conversation of that, happening for Emory at all?

Giles Eady: Well, next year we will be test-optional, not test free. But we will be test-optional next year. However, there are conversations that are being had at a higher level right now as to whether or not we'll go back to testing required, or continue to be test-optional indefinitely, or even test free. Those conversations are being had right now.

Anthony Su: Got it – so definitely TBD.

With the last few minutes, Giles, I do want to ask you some more interesting questions, or hopeful questions. Of course, with campus reopening, there are a lot of eager parents asking like, “Hey, when can I come and visit Emory? When can I take a look at Oxford College?” Any policies regarding that right now?

Giles Eady: Yeah. You can come visit campus now. We do have on our website where you can schedule a self-guided tour of campus. The campus is now open for visitors.

We have made some tweaks to the self-guided tour – in that it works with your smartphone. So when you're walking different places, you're going to have a tour guide on your smartphone that's going to talk to you.

I think that they'll be able to see like, you're at this building so we need to talk about this building, or you're at this building and so we need to talk about that one – which is kind of a way that we can make sure you have somewhat of a tour guide there. You're not just wandering around aimlessly. Because our tour guides aren't on campus, so we don't have anyone to shuttle you around.

Our only policy when you do come is that, in each building, you wear your mask. But as long as that's done, we're totally fine.

Anthony Su: Awesome. And then one other question I wanted to make sure you had the chance to highlight. Some of the families joining us today have wanted to go to Emory for a really long time. Some of them just learned about Emory and said, “Hey, I want to go and see what this university is about.” I want to have a chance for you to highlight: what about Emory makes it unique? And also maybe potential majors that you'd want to highlight, or things that you would really want to communicate to parents or students about Emory itself.

Giles Eady: Well, the people that are from Georgia know that typically in Georgia, when you mention Emory, people think, “Oh, a hospital.” But in actuality Emory is a major university that just happens to have a hospital.

I think the key thing to know about Emory – a key hallmark about Emory that makes it distinctive – is that you have a liberal arts education at Emory, but it's rooted in research as well. Usually those things don't coexist – where you have a research university who's also a liberal arts university.

The expectation for students that do come to Emory is that they're going to take courses across multiple disciplines. That's the liberal arts curriculum. And we anticipate that majors are going to change when students get exposed to other things. We prepare for it. But also we anticipate that, whatever they choose to study, they're going to do research in it, and we can accommodate research in every area of study offered at Emory.

I think some of the distinctive programs at Emory would be a lot of our interdisciplinary majors. We have some majors that are hybrids of different departments that come together to make that major. It really allows the student to really diversify their learning material, and also the classroom experience.

But also, with academics, we really focus on making sure that our professors are teachers. It's one thing to be an expert in your area of study. It's another thing to know how to teach it. So our professors are experts in their areas, but they are also teachers, and they are dedicated to being teachers. The overwhelming majority of our classes are taught by the professors, and these professors offer themselves up to you even after the class has ended. You will have teachers in the classroom – not lecturers. You will have actual teachers in the classroom.

So I think those are all distinctive things about Emory University.

Anthony Su: And Giles has mentioned that I can put his email, if there are any other questions or things that you want to reach out to him about. Definitely, I think Giles is more than happy to field some of those questions as well.

Giles Eady: Absolutely.

Elton Lin: Hopefully it's not the 22,000 application email ticks that you'll get! But, Giles, thank you so much again. Terrific conversation. I really appreciate you shedding light on the admissions process for families and students – and good luck this coming season. Hopefully you're able to get a little bit of a break before the next rush of applications come in – get on the course, stroll around, and get some fresh air before it all unleashes on you again!

But, again, thank you so much, Giles. And I appreciate everybody attending.

We will be having – for those of you who follow our email list – we'll be having a UC Santa Barbara admissions officer coming in next Thursday. Not to stride over on Giles’s time here – but UC Santa Barbara next week, and we would love to have you join us.

But thank you so much, again, Giles. I appreciate your time.

Giles Eady: It's my pleasure.

Elton Lin: And look forward to having you again!

Giles Eady: All right.

Elton Lin: All right.

Anthony Su: Take care.

Giles Eady: Thanks everyone.