Interview with Katie Congdon, Northeastern University Assistant Director of Undergraduate Admissions

We had the privilege of having Katie Congdon, Northeastern University Assistant Director of Undergraduate Admissions, join us in a webinar Q&A a few weeks ago to talk about the upcoming changes to admissions and the unique challenges of higher education in the years ahead. 

Elton Lin: Good afternoon. Welcome to our next instalment of our webinar series. We've had a good amount of admission counsellors and assistant directors, and it's really been a pleasure for me and our team, to speak directly to admissions counsellors from all over the United States, representing some amazing universities.

            And we have today Katie Congdon, who is assistant director of admission at Northeastern University. Northeastern, at least for our students over the past five or six years, has been growing massively in popularity. And I currently have a student myself who is at Northeastern and loves the experience, just finished her co-op with the Wayfair company, and is just overjoyed with her time. And Northeastern has been a great fit for her.

            We're excited to have Katie on with us. So Katie, why don't you, before we jump into this, just take a moment to introduce yourself.

Katie Congdon: Sure. Thanks, Elton. Thank you, Anthony, for having me. I know that you’ve been visited by several schools virtually, and I'm truly honored to be a part of that repertoire. It sounds like you've had some pretty cool colleges coming through, so thank you for that. Happy for everyone to be joining us here as well.

            My name is Katie Congdon. I am one of the assistant directors of undergraduate admissions at Northeastern. I've been at Northeastern for just over four years now. And for the majority of that time, I've been the representative in Northern California. I shouldn't say that I'm living in Northern California, but I'm the representative there.

Elton Lin: Before we go into your background… You must come out here a couple of times a year. What do you like most about visiting the Bay Area?

Katie Congdon: Oh my gosh. Um, how much time do we have? I love the Bay Area. I'm not just saying that, truly.

            Um, the first time I went out there, it was kind of interesting. I saw so many similarities between San Francisco and San Jose, primarily, compared to Boston. And so there wasn't much of a culture shock at all. It was very similar. I felt pretty at home going out there.

            Myself, I’m a huge foodie. And so to be able to find like a nice restaurant! Of course, I'm by myself. I usually pick Italian, which I think is like a, should be more of a date meal, but it's just me showing up for a table of one. But just being able to, yeah. Enjoy the local food, especially. It's something that I love to do.

Elton Lin: Oh, next time, definitely come out. And Anthony – I've already volunteered Anthony – Anthony will take you up. So fair enough.

Katie Congdon: Thanks!

Elton Lin: All right. So, Katie, why don't you tell us a little bit specifically about your role at Northeastern, and how you got into admissions?

Katie Congdon: Hmm, that's a great question. Sometimes I like to think back and be, how did I get here? Why am I doing what I'm doing?

            I absolutely love it. And hands down, I would never look back again. The background is I’m a first-gen college student, meaning that neither one of my parents had previously attended college. I was actually the first in my entire family that I'm aware of that has gone to college.

            And so there was, I think a lot of pressure. Not just to go to college, but to be successful in college. And, although I had the support of my parents and other loved ones, I didn't really know who to turn to or where to turn to when it was actually coming down to the nitty gritty. Okay. It's time to apply for colleges.

            So, um, being the type A person that I am, I took it on myself a hundred percent. I learned the process. It wasn’t easy. Many times I was, not confused in the process, but I just felt straight up dumb. I'm not going to lie. And so I kept thinking back to this, thinking, “I never want a student to go through that process and feel the things that I felt going through it.”

            And so what can I do that's going to help a student or help a parent or family member to get that kid to that next level? Why not be an admissions counselor? I gave it a try and, like I said, I've never looked back. I've been at Northeastern for just over four years.

            Like I said before, previously, I worked at a medium-sized public school. So it was pretty different than Northeastern, being a large private school. I'm glad to have the experiences of both types of institutions. And I think I'm more well prepared if a student says, “why Northeastern?” or, “Why a school like Northeastern?” I can tell them, truly from my experience, what the differences are in those.

Elton Lin: Got it. Fantastic. So, let's jump into a little bit about Northeastern. What sort of changes have been happening on campus this past year, and what changes are going to happen for this coming fall? How has COVID-19 impacted Northeastern? And what's Northeastern going to be doing this fall?

Katie Congdon: Wow!

Elton Lin: Where to start, right?

Katie Congdon: There's so much to talk about. I'm thinking about the overall challenges that not only us in admissions face, but just general challenges. Ultimately, I think we’re trying to find continuity – not just continuity in our students as educational paths, but continuity within even the enrollment management processes.

            I’m thinking about how important it is for students, this time of year, to visit our physical campuses. But, of course, they’re greeted instead with two-week quarantining minimum policies. What are ways to truly come together with various campus partners during these times? To create the best campus experience for all prospective students?

            Like most other colleges right now, if not all of them, we’ve moved our visits virtually. However, these virtual visits are a little different, in the sense that these are live. And they're live one or two times each day, to accommodate for different time zones, especially my friends in Northern California. And we do this so that you're still able to have that connection with our admissions counselors, and with current students leading the sessions. We've invested a lot of money into programming, in order to really showcase the value of a Northeastern education. Even if you have to do it virtually.

            So, when I think about these changes and maybe challenges that we’ve faced, it's also really cool to see how far we've come and also how much is available, not only to prospective students, but to our current students as well. So, for example, we are connecting one-on-one with students that maybe we wouldn't have reached out to in a typical cycle. Maybe they wouldn't have reached out to us. For current students we've created robust online communities, and this is a way for them to stay connected, whether it's with clubs and organizations, different spiritual centers, online mental health resources, you name it.

            I know that we've all struggled in one way or another, but it's pretty eye-opening to see what we've gained from it as well.

Elton Lin: Certainly there are going to be students who are watching this and thinking about Northeastern. What might they learn from some of these virtual experiences? Like, what might be unique? It's hard to say that the virtual experience is better than the in-person experience, but you're talking about these robust experiences online. What might students learn about Northeastern from these experiences?

Katie Congdon: Sure. If you were a prospective student, looking at how, maybe, the current students have adapted to this. One thing really stands out, that has been a big pain in our side for a while, is that there's so much to do at Northeastern. There's so much to be involved in. But we didn't really have a centralized system for students to actually know about these things. And, therefore, get involved in them.

            Now, when I'm talking to prospective students, I'm really encouraging them to view our online communities. Look through, for example, the calendar that we created. You can go in, and it's almost like an Instagram, if you think about it, in the sense that you choose what you're interested in learning about and everything else will disappear. The things that you're interested in show up. So you always stay up to date with what's going on. If there's a Google Hangouts link, Zoom link, or so many different online platforms now, different ways to stay connected. And I personally don't think we've ever been disconnected before. Things like that, that's just a small example. But when I talk to prospective students, I really like to hone in on that.

Elton Lin: Got it. So what you're saying is that, when this whole shift happened this past year, like the on-rush of resources to develop a better online platform, more engaging remote experiences, you really kind of went into high gear. Is that right?

Katie Congdon: Absolutely. And we're not looking back now.

Elton Lin: Sounds good. So, can you tell us a little bit about what the procedure is for this coming fall? I have a student right now who is going back. Her and her parents had some struggles with that conversation about returning, but she's still returning. But what is Northeastern doing that may put some parents’ concerns at rest?

Katie Congdon: I can tell you, Northeastern has been looking to the fall for a very long time now. Once this first started, a lot of us were thinking it might go on for two weeks, maybe three weeks, and we'll all come back and everything will be hunky-dory. Well, leaders at Northeastern knew a lot more than we did pretty early on.

            And they've been looking at this from a 10,000 foot level view, thinking that if this goes on until X amount of time, how can we best serve our students? And that ideology hasn't stopped. So we have in place, right now, a pretty multi-component strategy. And this is in order to keep campus as safe as possible.

            We strongly feel that campus really is ready for that successful fall semester. I myself have been back and I can tell you firsthand – take my word for it – that all questions have been answered; every concern has been addressed; everything has been put in place. We are currently doing testing on our campus, and have the capacity to test about 5,000 people every single day. This includes all faculty, staff, and students. All their visitors, and anyone touching our campus grounds, will have access to this free testing. All tests will then undergo pretty intense analysis at our newly built life sciences testing center. So another really cool thing that's come out of this, this recently actually secured state and federal certifications to process these at truly the gold standard of viral testing.

            But honestly, aside from testing, we built several outdoor tents around campus that will be utilized this fall for social gatherings. I think the biggest concern right now was not only to have students live on campus, but how do they engage with each other? This is a huge, if not the largest component of an undergraduate education: how do you engage with other students, peers, faculty, members, you name it. So creating these tents isn't the end all be all kind of saving grace, but it's definitely a way for us to move outside of our enclosed buildings, into outdoor areas where we can really just converse with our students and socialize.

            If you’re familiar with new England weather, you're probably freaking out a little bit, thinking, “What’s going to happen when winter comes?” But these are all heated tents. They all are fully capable with electricity outlets. And so there's, again, just more resources and uses for students to really accommodate and facilitate that social piece. Because, again, that’s so important, and we do understand that, in the undergraduate experience.

Elton Lin: Got it. So the point being that there's been a lot of consideration for how students are going to integrate back on the campus. And just, real quickly, I believe that there are both online and in-person options for classes?

Katie Congdon: That is correct. It's a hybrid model. Like many colleges and universities, we’re adopting nothing too different than… but if you're not familiar, I'll just give you the quick rundown.

            We have a completely remote model, which means that students can live and learn from wherever they are in the world, in any time zone that they're currently in. Students don't need to log in at the same time. It's pop in to the class whenever you have something valuable to add to a conversation.

            There’s also a hybrid option, remote and in-person. This is an option where students can actually live on campus. If they're taking, let's say, four or five classes, out of those classes, let's say two or three of them will be virtual.

            And we've set up all of our classrooms and microphones and cameras so that they can follow the professor around the room to really make sure – even if you're not sitting in a seat in the classroom – that you still feel connected and engaged in that class. And then we have, basically, that same model. So it's hybrid and it's virtual, but students will not be living on campus. This is the best option for students who maybe are close to the Eastern Standard Time Zone, so that they can still attend classes in the Boston time zone, but maybe they don't feel comfortable living on campus. We wanted to make sure, overall, that students are getting a wide variety of options depending on their comfortability in the area.

Elton Lin: Got it. And fantastic. And let me ask you, and I feel like this question is going to come up eventually, somewhere down the road, but what's been the request for deferrals for this coming fall? Do you have any information on that?

Katie Congdon: I do have information on that. We recently closed off the deferral process for a while. We wanted to give students as much time as possible to make that decision, because we know that that things are coming out. More information about the pandemic is coming out every single day.

            So giving students that time has been enabling the students, I think, to feel more comfortable and make that decision. But, because it's been going on for so long, I just received information as of the other day. I can tell you, our deferral rates were definitely higher than the traditional semester, but nothing groundbreaking.

            This is not, in any way, going to impact admissions rates and statistics for next year. So if you right now are viewing as a prospective student, a little worried about that, I don't want to tell you not to worry because that's up to you. You can worry if you want to. I want to validate that it's a good thing to worry about, but, truly at Northeastern, nothing is going to be impacted.

            Going forward too, I do want to mention that the students will continue to have the opportunity to defer. I think there's a lot of students right now worried that, because so many deferred in the past, that we're going to have to cut it off in the future. And that's not the case at all.

Elton Lin: Yeah. I think the biggest concern was that if there were an enormous amount of deferrals for this coming fall, it's going to impact next fall. Right? So rising seniors currently, who are thinking about next year. But you're saying is that the percentages have not gone up to such a degree where it would impact next year's class?

Katie Congdon: Correct. That is correct.

Elton Lin: At least for Northeastern.

Katie Congdon: At least for Northeastern!

Elton Lin: Right. Perfect. Okay. So why don't we jump in, if it's okay, into the admissions process. Would you mind sharing a little bit? I feel like a lot of families and students enjoy hearing the inside process for how applications get processed inside the school. So if you don't mind, can you share a little bit about Northeastern's admissions process?

Katie Congdon: I can share a little bit…

Elton Lin: Step by step. Each micro-movement!

Katie Congdon: Wouldn't it be nice to be a fly on the wall in one of our admissions committees? We talk about that all the time!

            I think the biggest thing is just making sure that students understand that we're humans too. And so, what happens when we get your application? It's normally sent directly to me, because I'm the rep for Northern California. It's sent to me for a few reasons. But the main reason is because I'm so well aware of your schools – whether, maybe, you attend a school like Khan Lab that doesn't grade. Or maybe you are another nontraditional student, a homeschool student. Maybe you go to somewhere like BASIS independent where all your classes are AP and higher.

            There are so many different reasons, like I said, that I would know your schools better than other representatives in our office. Send it to me, I'll review it with my knowledge and my contacts that I have in your schools and your surroundings. And then once I make my decision, it's then sent to the committee of a larger group.

            And I don't think this is secret at all, but the group that we have is basically broken down by region. So I'm not only reading with other California representatives, but I'm reading with other kind of West Coast representatives. Again, they're familiar with the schools and the communities that you have all grown up in and attended.

            Now with that, we then make our decisions based on the bigger applicant pool. So this is where it gets a little tricky. I may think you're an outstanding student, and I know that you are, but we have something called institutional priorities, which every institution is going to have. And these play such an important role in our decision making process. The only downside of that is that they change year to year, maybe even month to month in our, really, the nitty-gritty part of our cycle. And so many things I can't share with students and prospective families, not because I want to be secretive, but because they're changing so rapidly.

            So a decision might be on a student's file one day, and then taken off the next day. But, ultimately, I'm the one that really fights hard for all my students. Because again, I have all that context of where you're coming from.

            I think, if there's anything that I could leave you with tonight, it’s that know that I'm a human, just like you. As long as you're genuine in that process, and sharing everything you can possibly share with us on your application, I guarantee that we're going to make the best decision for you, and you're going to end up at the best place you could possibly end up at.

Elton Lin: Thank you, Katie. I appreciate that. Especially because I think there's a lot of confusion about how applications get reviewed, and the whole thing about institutional priorities. I don't know if you want, but would you like to share more about that?

Katie Congdon: Absolutely. Yeah, because it's such a gray area, I love to share as much as I can. So, like I said, they change year to year. But I'll give you an example. One year we had a lot of money put into this really nice new athletic field. So that next upcoming cycle we want students to use the field. We want athletes. That's just a given.

            When we create, maybe, this new, beautiful lab on campus that is solely dedicated to being a wet lab, we want students to use that. So we're going to dig a little deeper into maybe the life sciences. Maybe just really anything in STEM. We’ve got a brand new – we call it the Corey College of Computer Sciences. This is a brand new college. I mean, brand new within the last four or five years or so. So not super brand new, but we need students to fill those classrooms. So we're going to lean a little heavily on them.

            So many different demographics, right? And geographics too. We don't want to fill our entire class with students who are coming from our neighbouring communities. We want a wide array of students. We pride ourselves on being a global university. And so, because of that, we're going to look outside of Massachusetts, outside of the United States, for our students. We're going to dig a little deeper in those.

            Going back to students in the STEM fields, we want more females. It is not a secret that females are lacking in that population of students. So we're going to dig a little deeper there.

            Again, there are so many different examples of institutional priorities. One may be prevalent one year and not next year. You can ask a representative what their institutional priorities are, but I guarantee that they're just not going to share it because they change so rapidly.

            This is definitely the biggest thing in the application process that neither you nor I have any control over. So I wouldn't want you to worry about it too much. Just know that there are things that we think about when we're reviewing your applications and ultimately making those decisions.

Elton Lin: I totally appreciate that. That's a super honest response. And the reality is that we are not in control of those dynamics, and it changes from month to month, year to year, whatever the case may be. But maybe going towards the things that students can control, and perhaps the type of students that Northeastern is looking for. What is Northeastern looking for among the student pool?

Katie Congdon: This is a great question, because normally students actually flip it and say, “What can I do to really stand out?” Okay. Please don't lie! Don't make up languages you don’t speak at home. Don't make up past educational experiences. If you're genuine in the process, we will mold this community.

            I think when students apply to not only Northeastern, but any school these days, they're thinking that they need to be the most multi-dimensional student. Thinking, I need to be working on research at Stanford hospital. I need to be creating these different sports teams at school, and to be captain of this, leader of this… That's not the case at all. Sure, we love leaders, but we also like followers. You need people to actually join clubs. You can't have a student body that's only going to create clubs!

            So we’re finding different aspects in students, whether it's academics – we need students that are academically qualified for the classes at Northeastern. Or if you're looking at the activities again, we want students who are going to be engaged. We now have over 500 clubs and organizations. If you apply and you've only been a member of two clubs in the entire four years, it says a lot about your commitment, maybe your just overall idea of what your undergraduate career is going to look like.

            I also want to pause for a second and realize that when I say extracurriculars, I don't always mean just the, the general, I don't know, United Nations club, finance club, investment club, whatever. It could be a part time job. I love part time jobs. I love seeing students with jobs. It's good responsibility, time management, you name it. I love it. Looking at family responsibilities this year, especially, I think it's going to be an increase in what we're seeing – and that's fine too. We understand that when a mom or dad loses their job, maybe. Or, I hate to think about it, but what if you have a loved one that gets sick? Someone needs to be there to take care of them.

            If we're going to continue with virtual learning, maybe mom or dad has to go to a job every day, and you need to be the one that's going to mentor younger siblings and cousins. You name it. We want to see that in your application, please. Don't try to tailor it to what you think we want to see; leave that up to us. That's our job: to take the students that we think are going to add value to our community and then bring them on campus with an acceptance letter.

Elton Lin: So maybe the moral of the story that I get from what you're saying is that you're looking for a specific type of student. It's not just leaders; it’s including followers. It's all range of students. But you do want to see students get involved. You want to see students getting out there and doing something, whatever that's something is. It could be very unique to the students, but you do prefer to see students who are more engaged.

            And, in light of COVID, it could mean taking up responsibilities at home, online volunteering, whatever. It's just, you want to see students get engaged. Is that correct?

Katie Congdon: That is correct. And I think this year – wink, wink – I know, I don't think, I know – that we're going to focus a lot more heavily on this because – groundbreaking news – we have gone test-optional. And so taking that component out of it, it's naturally going to make us focus on things that maybe we didn’t put that much thought into in the past. So it's a great time to be a student, I think. I know it's probably a lot of pressure on all of you, but this is a great time to show the value in what your background is and what you've been involved in.

Elton Lin: I guess the groundbreaking news is true. Everybody's going test-optional, and it does force admission readers to look at other places in the application. But what about – and we get this question a lot – what about students who do have good test scores?

Katie Congdon: We get that too, and that's totally fine. It will only help you. It will never hurt you. We are test-optional, meaning that you can submit them if you want, but don't feel like you have to submit them.

If you have your hands on some pretty nice test scores, I would really encourage you to check our website for past statistics. And if you can't find them, reach out, I'm happy to help guide you in that process. But really, do your due diligence to look and see which students have been admitted in the past, thinking where they're falling on the board with the SAT and the ACT, and then you can really compare it.

If your test scores are below what we've seen for admitted students, please, it's probably not advantageous for you to submit them. But if you're finding yourself within that range, or even higher, congratulations. Good for you. Definitely submit them. Like I said, they can only help. They'll never hurt your application.

Elton Lin: I was just thinking, if students are emailing you, who is eventually gonna read their application, “Hey Katie, can I send them my test scores? What are you thinking about these scores?”

Katies Congdon: Honestly, with 65,000 applications, you could email me today and say, I totally bombed the SAT. I will not remember it.

Elton Lin: That would be a interesting conversation. “You sent me an email three months ago…”

            But with that being said, I think a lot of the fear of a lot of students is that you guys are going “test-optional”… Is it really test-optional? “If I don't send them my test scores, will you think twice, maybe you assume that I didn't score highly? Maybe it's going to be a negative against me.” But what you're saying is that that's not the case, is that correct?

Katie Congdon: That is correct. And I think truly, and this is totally coming from the bottom of my heart. Like I said, I am a human, I have feelings from the bottom of my heart. If I came across Elton's application tomorrow and I saw that he didn't submit test scores, I would actually assume that he just never had the chance to do it, not that he scored badly. We're seeing so many closures, test dates getting cancelled, you name it. My immediate thought would just be, “Oh, he's like everyone else. And he just couldn't get a test date.” And that's it. I would not even think twice about it.

Elton Lin: Okay. And there are so many applications you can't even take an extra moment to even think about it.

Katie Congdon: No!

Elton Lin: Got it. Okay. All right. So I think that's reassuring. And in context of what you said earlier as well, which is like, if you have a test score that’s an asset to you, then go ahead and send it. If it's not an asset or you didn't get a chance to take it, don't worry about it.

            Why don't we jump into a little bit about, since you're looking at other parts of the applications, certainly you're looking at the essay. And the essay, perhaps, may take up a little bit more attention. I know that there are students right now who are laboring over writing their personal statement. What kind of insight can you give students and students about writing their essays?

Katie Congdon: This is another thing that's going to come from the bottom of my heart. We're getting real emotional tonight, but I truly, truly, truly have never read an essay that I've absolutely hated. Yeah. I've definitely read some essays where I'm like, “Hmm, I wish they wrote about this instead of that,” but I’ve never read an essay that I've hated!

            Your lives have not been long. You're only, what, 17, maybe 18 years old. And so I understand that there's probably nothing groundbreaking that's happened that you need to write your essay about. My favorite essays are about the most simple topics. For example, one of the first that I've ever read actually was about a baseball player who found meditation. And it's just about how he never thought he'd be into meditation. He got into it, how it's impacted his life now, and how it's going to impact his life in the future. And that was amazing. That's all I needed to read.

            I really love when a student's essay, regardless of the topic, is very structured. How you found out about it, how you're dealing with it now, and how you're going to deal with it in the future. Whether it's about meditation and baseball, or maybe it's about getting your first part time job at a restaurant as a waiter. You name it. I've read so many different types of essays, and again, I've never really hated an essay.

Elton Lin: That's reassuring! And I think the point that you bring up is taking a small element, or a seemingly small one, and really giving hyper-focus to it, seeing the impact of it is, and doing that arc: what does it look like in my life? How did it happen, and how is it gonna make a difference in my future? It's giving you an image of what that student will be like in the future. And essentially you're trying to project what that student is going to be like on campus. Is that correct?

Katie Congdon: That is correct. And I have to add too, after reading 60, 70, maybe 80 applications a day and reading those essays as well, the more structured essays are the ones that are easier on my eyes, on my brain, and those are the ones that I'm going to remember. If you're all over the place, if you're using quotes from past philosophers… I mean, I'm gone. Who can keep up with that after reading 70 of them? So keep it simple. Keep it genuine. Just tell me about you.

Elton Lin: Gotcha. All right. That's reassuring.

            So why don't we move on to maybe one last thing about the admissions process. Is there anything else that, maybe, most students are misunderstanding about the process, that just keeps coming up from year to year with students and parents?

Katie Congdon: Not so much year to year, but I think now, naturally, the idea about test-optional. I know I've talked a lot about Northeastern? And I mean, I'm wearing the metaphorical name tag for Northeastern tonight. So I will talk about Northeastern. But, if you are looking at other schools, and I hope that you are, I would really do a lot of homework and background work into asking what test-optional means at other schools, and really honing in on that and understanding that we, I know it's corny, but we really all are in this together.

            This is definitely a different year for everyone, but focus on the things that you can control. That’s the essay. That's just anything in the “additional information” section. Look at the teachers that you're asking to write your recommendations. Really focus on the things that you can control in the process. And again, I don't want to tell you not to worry about things, but just let go of the stress and the pressures of things that you can't control in this process.

Elton Lin: That's good advice. So, before we get into Q&A with everybody who's attended, there are certainly a lot of universities, and certainly students in this group are considering applying to Northeastern. What makes Northeastern different than other schools that they might be considering?

Katie Congdon: A lot!

Elton Lin: Again, where to start?

Katie Congdon: Where to start? Attend one of my info sessions!

            I think the biggest thing, probably the most obvious thing, is our co-op program. And if you aren't familiar with this, the co-op program is just a piece of experiential learning in general at Northeastern. It's definitely the most widely known piece of this process.

            If you aren't familiar, co-op in a nutshell is a six-month-long, full time employment opportunity where students like yourself can work up to 40 hours a week. During this time you're not taking classes and, therefore, you're not paying tuition. Which is probably the biggest piece of that. At the same time that you're not paying tuition, about 85% of these opportunities are paid opportunities.

Elton Lin: Wow!

Katie Congdon: So you're not paying tuition. Right. And you're getting that fancy adult paycheck. These opportunities now have been taking place with about 3,400 employers. Not just in Boston, not just in the U.S., but truly worldwide. We've had a co op student on every single continent for the last decade or so. Of course, this semester looks a little different, as most people are virtual. But most of these opportunities, the majority of them, you've been able to stay on virtually.

            Being able to really give students that opportunity to – I like to say “test drive their career” – years before graduation is not only going to get you the experience you need to make that next step, but you're going to be introduced to the global market that you might not be used to if you're going to a school with an internship, per se. I think coming to Northeastern, truly – with the single most robust co-op program in the nation – will ensure that you're prepared for this ever-changing global market. This is something that is going to make you stand out – hands down, I guarantee it – from any other students, not just at Northeastern, but any other university in addition.

            So there are a lot of schools right now that are talking about co-ops, and kind of throwing around that word right now in higher education. And, again, I think this kind of goes to the theme of test-optional when you're checking out other schools and universities. Say they have something like co-ops or experiential learning. It's really vital for you as a perspective student to dig a little deeper. What does that mean at the school? What opportunities am I really getting? What is the value of this education? So that's just a little blurb about Northeastern. I absolutely love this program. I hope you learn a little bit more about it too, but I hope that covers co-op in a nutshell.

Elton Lin: Yeah, no question. I mean, this is why, if I'm not mistaken, the hire rate out of Northeastern, it's something like 95 or 96%?

Katie Congdon: Yeah.

Elton Lin: Six months after graduation, you're hired. Right? So it's this absurdly high hire rate?

Katie Congdon: Yup. And sometimes employers don't even wait till you're graduating. Sometimes they'll offer you a job and you're halfway through your sophomore year! I mean, it's crazy.

Elton Lin: Yeah, it's true. All of our own students who went to Northeastern were hired. Almost immediately right after. And I agree: most of them got job offers before they graduated! And this is a wide range. This is not just computer science, but in all range of majors, they were getting hired out very quickly. So that's really encouraging.

            Can you tell – because certainly there are going to be students who are interested in pre-med or computer science or engineering, or something like that – can you sure a little bit more about Northeastern resources, and perhaps what’s there for those types of students?

Katie Congdon: Sure. So we'll start with pre-med – and really pre-anything, where you're looking at pre-health, pre-dental, pre-vet, even pre-law. But speaking about the medical field in general, Boston is the place to be. I want to say, come to Northeastern, but if you’re not going to go to Northeastern, at least go to Boston.

I think you'd be really doing yourself a disservice if you didn't go to Boston. We are truly the hub of healthcare! Within walking distance from our campus are some of the top hospitals in the nation. And not only are students doing research at these hospitals, but they're getting their clinical experiences there. They're getting their co-ops there. They're getting job offers there. And so what a way to catapult yourself so far ahead into the medical field before graduation, before maybe making that next step to medical school?

You just can't do yourself a disservice. You got at least a look at a school – I hope it's Northeastern – but at least look at a school in Boston. If even an ounce of your soul is interested in anything pre-med.

Elton Lin: What a hearty endorsement, Katie!

Katie Congdon: Ha! But I think when you're looking at STEM in general, anything like science, technology, engineering, or math, Northeastern is truly the place to be. Such an entrepreneurial, innovative, interdisciplinary hub of academics.

            I’m not getting too much into the Northeastern weeds here, but when you think of Northeastern, the flexible curriculum naturally enables you to have courses across the different colleges. And so not only are you maybe taking a single major, with a minor, sure, but we offer over 250 different combined majors. Finding yourself interested, maybe, in a STEM field, but also combining that with something like English or philosophy, political science, business? You name it!

            Giving yourself that interdisciplinary edge before even going on your first job interview ensures that you're not only a master in that one field, but you're also a master in another field, maybe unrelated to STEM. And we all know that even if the greatest job – at Google or Microsoft or Facebook – even if you're focused fully on computer sciences, there is always going to be a component of something in the social sciences, in business, in arts, design, media, you name it.

            So come to Northeastern. Take a part in that combined major. Go to a school that has that flexible curriculum. That's going to give you opportunities to not only explore something – like Elton said – maybe in pre-med, maybe in STEM, but know that you're getting such a well-rounded education in the meantime.

Elton Lin: Wow. I'm ready to apply!

Katie Congdon: That's fine. It's never too late!

Elton Lin: Maybe. Yes and no. But I appreciate that, Katie. And with regards to the opportunities for interdisciplinary study and, actually, the value of interdisciplinary study for the course of your career and lifetime, I think that is really valuable.

            And even for us, on our end. We know some friends who are HR in some of the biggest tech companies, and they are looking for both CS plus other majors. They want thinkers and not just doers. And so this could be a really great opportunity for STEM students to really diversify their educational experience. Northeastern seems like a great fit for that.

            So why don't I bring Anthony back on. I know there have been some questions that have been posted in the chat box. And if you have questions, go ahead and log them in the Q&A box now. And we'll go ahead and tackle them right now.

Anthony Su: Yeah, Katie, you've got a lot of questions! Let's start with co-op, because I feel like this is something that maybe parents and students aren't as familiar with. One person says, “Yeah, co-op is great, but does that delay my graduation time?”

Katie Congdon: Wonderful question. And the answer is yes and no. I say this because truly every student is going to be different. It's hard for me to say, “It's going to take you five years, but only you four years.” So I like to share the general rule of thumb.

            So, I should back up, saying, too, that students can take a maximum of three co-ops. And at six months each, that's 18 months that you may be delayed. So the way that it works – again, general rule of thumb – is that if you take only one co-op, you can almost always still graduate in four years. It's such a pivotal part of our curriculum that it's already built into your academic experience. So no need to worry about that.

            If you're taking two co-ops, you can normally graduate in four, four and a half years. Three co-opes is when you start looking at five years. Now, even if it does take a student five years to graduate… jumping back to my explanation about co-ops, remember that you never pay for the time that you're out on co-op. And so no family will pay five years’ worth of tuition. All students are paying for eight in-class semesters, or four years.

            Now, when we say eight in-class semesters, it may be during a summer semester. But if you ask me – and I think I'm a little biased – summer's the best time to be in class. There's no snow. There are lots, lots of Red Sox games going on. I mean, this is just the place to be in the summer. So why not stay a little longer and make up that time that you're out of the classroom, and really just make sure that you're graduating on time? You'll have mentors throughout your entire process that are going to make sure that you're graduating on time and really sticking to that schedule.

Anthony Su: Yeah, I think there’s that misconception that, “Oh, I'd have to take a co-op that's an additional barrier for my career or to my graduation!” But honestly, you also have to think, you're not paying tuition at the time you're working, and making money at that time. You're effectively graduating early and already gotten a job. And you can come back and do maybe another year, but… I think co-op is great.

Elton Lin: The reality, too, is that like students are looking for internships of all forms anyways. This is where Northeastern is building into the process, using your guys's corporate partnerships to then provide internship opportunities for students. So this is, to me, one of the shining aspects of Northeastern.

Katie Congdon: No question. And if I can just add that the time that you're out on co-op, it is a little different than an internship. I like to say it's like an internship on steroids. These are entry-level, full time jobs. And so, by the time you are ready to graduate, you are not like a student who went to another school. You're not now looking at entry level jobs. Now you're looking at supervisor, manager, assistant director and all that, you know.

            You're going to find that the graduates at Northeastern have starting salaries that are exponentially higher than other students at other schools that maybe are just now starting their entry level process. So that's also something to think about. Not only are you saving money by not attending classes for all four years, you're breaking that up per se. You're looking at setting yourself up and catapulting yourself far ahead on the career path – which you're not going to get, I guarantee, at any other school or university.

Elton Lin: All I heard was exponentially higher. Wow.

Anthony Su: Pretty important!

Elton Lin: Yeah. That's an important one. But thank you, Katie. Appreciate it.

Anthony Su: Let's pivot really quickly. There's some questions about health and safety. You know, we’re seeing a lot of schools recently closed down, or making reversals on their on-campus plans. One parent or student asked that, you know, with so many reversals, how can you forecast anything except for an all-online structure? How do you intend to enforce, or make sure that students are making the right decisions?

Katie Congdon: You know, I think the community that we're building is a community based on education. Not just because we are a college, but more about: how do we educate our community members to not do something because to not do it, you're truly protecting the person right next to you. So wearing masks. Getting tested every three days, and getting those results back. Making sure of proper social distancing. Taking the precautions that we need to take. In order to, what we call “protect the pack.” Our mascot is a Husky. So we always talk about the dog pack, making sure that we really are protecting one another. If anyone has anything that comes up, there are ample ways that classes can be flexible. Professors can be flexible.

            I can't sit here and honestly tell you that we have it figured out, because we don't. I don't think any of these colleges do. None of these high schools do. Nobody does. But if we take precautions, and make sure that we are trying to think of everything we can to make sure that everyone remains safe!

Elton Lin: Got it. Okay.

Anthony Su: Yeah. And I guess the follow-up question for that, which another person asks kind of skeptically: are masks mandatory, or are these “suggested” in quotes?

Katie Congdon: Again, this is going back to the idea that we're educating people. We're not telling them to do something. I think legally, you can't really tell someone to do something, but educating people that if we all wear masks, we should remain safe together. We ask for all community members – while on our campus – to be wearing masks.

            And like I mentioned earlier, I’ve been back to campus. It's different. Definitely not as many people as before. But everyone I came in contact with was wearing masks, and I was very happy with how it was all turning out.

Anthony Su: Awesome. Great to see that attitude there is just like in California, where everyone's trying to mask up when possible.

            Pivoting to applications, and what students should do: one person wanted to ask about early decision and how that works at Northeastern.

Katie Congdon: That's another loaded question. There's so much to think about in making your “early decision” decision. If you're looking at a school like Northeastern, and you are fully committed academically, financially, socially – you have no Boston university t-shirts in your drawer; only Northeastern – then maybe Northeastern is a great option to go early decision. We have early decision one and two, which is another conversation to have. But early decision, I think, is great for students who truly – hands down – would take us up on that admissions offer before even reconsidering any other colleges.

            We're definitely a school that’s thought into the students, not only that we're admitting, but also into the policy in general about early decision. I know there are some other schools – that I will not name – but there are other schools that maybe allow a little more flexibility. We're not that flexible. This truly is the good option for a student who is hands-down committed in all those ways I just mentioned.

Anthony Su: Perfect. And someone also wanted to highlight, what are the popular majors that Northeastern students are applying to?

Katie Congdon: With over 250 majors to choose from, it's hard to pick out the most popular ones! But definitely STEM focused, whether engineering, sciences, computer science, biology… you name it. Business is gaining in popularity. And it's interesting to see the different ebbs and flows of popular majors. Around times where political issues are rising, you see political science, international affairs, really anything in the humanities starting to increase. And, as you can imagine, that is happening right now. So I think that will be another popular major in the coming months.

Anthony Su: Awesome. Yeah, of course there's constantly changing. And then another attendee also asked, “Do I have a higher chance of being admitted if I consider undeclared or something like that?”

Katie Congdon: You know, this is another piece of the application. Please don't choose to do something because you think that's what we want to see. The Explorer program is for undeclared students. I think it's a fabulous program, but if you're not really undeclared, why would you waste your time doing that. Pick something that you think that you're going to thrive in.

            Of course, when I say that, also, please know that whatever you choose to intend on your major on the application, this isn't a make-or-break decision. It's not an end-all be-all. You can change it at any point in time. But don't waste anyone's time. Really show us what you're interested in and what you're all about.

Elton Lin: With that being said, changing majors is certainly difficult at other schools, and perhaps problematic if you're talking about like computer science or engineering. But if a student were to want to change majors, how easy is that to engage?

Katie Congdon: I can tell you firsthand, because I’ve changed majors for admitted students all the time. It is literally a click of a button. I hit save, and your majors change.

            With that being said, I do like to remind students – if, again, any ounce of your soul is maybe interested in the college of engineering, for example – just based on our accreditation policies, that sometimes it's not as easy. I'm not saying that it’s not possible. It's just not as easy for students to change. So if you're interested in engineering, just even a little bit, I would always recommend applying into that and change out of it later on if you have to.

            But other than engineering, it's a very fluid system. I think it goes back to our conversation about co-ops. And maybe, “test-driving” a career, you hate it. You come back to campus and you want to change your major. Thinking about interdisciplinary studies, we have all students studying in all colleges. And so keeping the open doors between our eight colleges is really important.

Anthony Su: Awesome. Switching away from majoring and going to, you know, the scores – ACT and test-optional, all of those new policies – there's a lot of confusion here, right? People are asking, “I'm constrained taking community college classes. Is that going to count on my transcript to help my GPA potentially? If I have a lower GPA, and now I don't have a test score, is that really going to hurt me?” Pass/fail as well is another attribute. Do you have some comments on just that particular change, Katie?

Katie Congdon: It's crazy. And I don't think GPAs are ever going to look the same. So I think that's one piece of the admissions process that you just don't have any control over. If you want to spend the time and the money on community college courses, be my guest. We love to see that. But what time is that taking away from something else that may be also adding value to your application? So just think about that opportunity loss by taking courses, or maybe not taking courses, at a community college.

            GPAs, whew! They're going to be all over the board this year. And, again, being your representative for your area, it's my job to know which schools have gone pass/fail, and which schools are still sticking with the grading system, really understanding what goes in to that number that they spit out as your GPA, and knowing that they are never going to look the same again.

            And it does not mean that you're a bad student or that you've made mistakes along the way. It's just the world that we're living in. I know that's a super vague the answer to the question, but this is really just one of the things that you don't have a lot of control over this year, and that's totally fine.

Elton Lin: And on that, I mentioned this before, but some of the universities that have come onto our webinars have said that, “Hey, we're going to really pay attention to senior year grades and maybe even look at progress reports in the middle of the semester.” Is there going to be any special attention to those grades in light of the fact that there's so many missing grades?

Katie Congdon: You know, honestly, there are so many high schools that maybe aren't considering that, or don't have the ability to do that and make those documents for their students. So we would never make it a requirement. If you are fortunate enough to go to a high school that will offer a midterm report, midyear whatever it may be, absolutely. We will welcome anything you want to send into us. If maybe you want another letter of recommendation from a teacher who can really vouch for your ability in the classroom, feel free to submit that. But nothing is going to be required, other than the general application materials. Nothing extra's going to be required from students this year, because it is such a crazy year for everyone.

Anthony Su: And then just a slight tangent, just another clarification question. They want to know how weighted GPA factors into this, compared to unweighted GPA. What's the consideration there?

Katie Congdon: And this is a great question too. Northeastern actually recalculates your GPA – in a typical year, or in a COVID year. So we actually see your weighted and unweighted GPA on your transcript. But it's actually not used in our admissions process. The way, generally speaking, that we’ll recalculate your GPA is that we're looking at the level of courses that you're taking. So looking at the APs and honors courses, or if you go to a school with IB courses, we're looking at those as well. We’re looking at the highest level of courses: the grades you received in those courses.

            And I'm talking about the core courses as well. So I don't care too much about your gym requirements or health classes. But looking at those core classes, looking at, again, the level of the courses and the grade you're receiving, that's how we'll calculate our GPA. It's pretty similar to your weighted GPA. So if you're wondering, “What the heck is it going to look like at Northeastern?” consider your weighted GPA and know that it's going to be around that number.

Anthony Su: And then, Katie, the immediate follow-up question that came up probably 30 seconds ago: is there a list of these courses that are weighted at Northeastern?

Katie Congdon: No. If only because there are so many of them! If you are listening to this tonight and you really just want to know what that GPA is going to be, I can't fully calculate it for you, but if you send me the list of courses, I'll find time eventually to go through them and I'll tell you which ones will be weighted and not weighted.

Elton Lin: But, just to be clear, it's primarily, AP, IB honors level, and at a community college, is that correct?

Katie Congdon: Yeah. Those are the ones that are given the most weight in our recalculation process. We'll review all of your classes. Calculus, even if it was at a college prep level. We'll review everything. It just won't get as much weight as an honors or an AP class.

Elton Lin: Got it.

Katie Congdon: At the same time, I think I should mention that I understand that there are schools in the area that maybe don't offer APs, or don't allow their students to take a set number of APs. And that's fine. Your GPA is naturally going to look smaller than someone that went to a school that offers nothing but AP courses. And that's okay.

            Again, that's something that I need to know on my end so that I can use that in context, as I'm reviewing your file. Say you had a 3.0 GPA. It doesn't mean you're a bad student. It just means that maybe you went to a school that didn't offer X, Y, and Z.

Anthony Su: Thank you for that clarification, Katie. Just a final two questions. There’s a question about scholarships: aid for international students. Can you go over that policy, or how at Northeastern they handle that?

Katie Congdon: Sure. So merit-based scholarships is something that we review every single applicant for – international, domestic, anything in between. There's nothing else. That's it. Merit-based scholarships anybody's reviewed for. There's no additional application needed.

            However, I should say, this is a little different than financial aid, which is also a pretty common question. Financial aid is handled a little differently, only because now we're talking primarily about federal aid, and that, unfortunately, is only available to domestic students or students that at least have a social security number.

Anthony Su: Perfect. And then lastly, there’s someone asking you about the transfer process. What does that look like in comparison to the high school application process? What do you look for from that kind of student?

Katie Congdon: It's fairly similar, if not identical. In addition to your high school transcript, now we're going to look at your college transcript of whatever college you're currently attending. So that's going to be a little different. And the essay, instead of being the general Common App essay, it's going to be a little more tailored to Northeastern. Why do you think you'd be a good fit at Northeastern? That is not an essay we have if you’re coming out high school.

            So those are the only differences. Other than that, it's really just an office opportunity for us to look a little more in depth at your ability to be a successful student at a college setting. Whereas if you're applying as a senior in high school, we wouldn't have that.

Elton Lin: And does Northeastern reserve a lot of space for transfer students? Or is it relatively a small percentage of the student body?

Katie Congdon: A lot! Okay, compared to other schools, it’s probably not a lot, a lot. The pool itself is generally very much smaller than the undergraduate. Just to give you some context.

            I should stop saying undergrads, ’cause transfers are undergrads too. If you're applying out of high school, we see about 65,000 applications. For transfer students, it's definitely smaller than that. But because it's so small, our acceptance rates are a little larger. We'll see about a 30% acceptance rate for transfers, where it's just under 20% for students applying from high school.

Anthony Su: One final question that just snuck in here. You mentioned that you really enjoy looking at applicants who have held a job? This person was asking, can I consider my supervisor or employer for a letter of recommendation instead of my teacher? How do you think that would help the person stand out? Or if that would give a different context?

Katie Congdon: It would give a different context, but I would really make sure to think about it yourself. Is this adding value? Is it adding maybe another perspective that we haven't received in other parts of your application?

            A lot of times we'll get, because we only require two, one counselor and one teacher. But of course, you have the student where you open their file and there are 27 recommendation letters – from a pastor, from a soccer coach, from the elderly man next door that you mowed their lawn one time… It's like, I get that. You're great. I’ve read it 27 times over again!

            But what value is it adding? If your supervisor can talk about, maybe, your responsibilities. Maybe time management. Maybe something that we're not getting from the academic standpoint of someone else writing like a letter of recommendation. Then hands down, send it in! I'd love to read it.

Anthony Su: Great. That was all the questions!

Elton Lin: Super. Well, Katie, thank you so much for taking the time to come on with us. It's been super informative. And I see the list of people who are on, attending this webinar. I know some people are seriously considering Northeastern, and don't have BU sweatshirts in their drawer.

Katie Congdon: Yay!

Elton Lin: They're rare. But, again, thank you very much, Katie.

            I just want to announce to those who are still in attendance that you can certainly go onto our website. We've interviewed other admissions counselors. And we've including Emory, Pomona college, UC Santa Barbara, and, among others, Boston University.

            And go ahead and go on one website next week. We'll have Pepperdine. And we’re looking to bring on other people as well!

            So thank you so much for coming on, Katie. Really appreciate your time and your energy and your enthusiasm. And I’m definitely, definitely encouraged and motivated to apply! Maybe not myself, but…

Katie Congdon: It’s never too late.

Elton Lin: I'll send you an email, Katie. We'll get that in there!

             Alright. Thank you so much again. Thanks everyone for attending. Appreciate your time. See you next time.

Anthony Su: Thank you so much, Katie. See you guys.

Katie Congdon: Thank you.