Webinar Transcript: Live Q&A with Boston University Senior Assistant Director of Admissions

We had the privilege of sitting down recently with Elise Fisher, Senior Assistant Director of Admissions at Boston University, to talk about current admissions trends and the unique challenges and trends within higher education in the year ahead.

Elton Lin: All right. Hey, welcome to everybody who is participating from perhaps all over the United States and all over the world. Super excited to have Elise Fisher on from Boston University, representing the admissions office. So we're continuing with our series of webinars with conversations with different admissions officers and representatives – counselors from different universities across the United States. We have Elise Fisher from Boston University. Excited to have you. Thank you for coming on – and I want to give you a moment to just introduce yourself and perhaps share what you're responsible for in the admissions office at BU. We can get started with that.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah, awesome. Thanks so much for having me tonight. I'm really excited to be here. It's great to see students logging in from all over the U.S.!

My name is Elise Fisher. I'm a senior assistant director on the board of admissions with Boston University. I'm also a very proud BU alum myself. I graduated from BU with a degree in psychology. But I'm originally from San Jose. I grew up in San Jose. I went to Presentation High School, and then came out to BU to go to school, and I've been in Boston ever since!

So I've been here thirteen years now. Wow – I know, I can't believe that! But I'm not planning on moving back to California anytime soon. So I promise, for all of you who are considering East Coast or maybe colder climate schools, you can definitely survive. I promise!

In the office itself I have a couple different responsibilities. I'll mention my territory first. I travel to and read applications from the South Bay – so San Jose to Monterey-ish. And also from Orange County. So if you attend a high school in any of those areas, generally I'll be the first reader on your application.

And then, in a typical year, I travel out to those schools to visit students. This past year we did virtual travel. We will see what this fall brings to us… But, in all likelihood, if you attend high school in one of those areas, I'll have a chance at meeting you as well – which is great.

I also – kind of randomly – oversee our college of fine arts selection process. So if you are, perhaps, applying to the fine arts at BU, I can answer a little bit more specific questions for you. I look at applications for students applying to all three of our programs: music, theater, and visual arts. And then help make decisions on those applications as well.

Overall, my job includes traveling in the fall, reading applications in the spring, and then greeting students – welcoming them onto campus as we get into March and April. And then taking plenty of time off over the summer!

So that's a little bit about my responsibility to the office.

Elton Lin: Sounds good. Thank you so much, Elise.

So before we jump into questions, I'm just gonna let everybody know: if you have questions for Elise, go ahead and post them in the Q&A box at the bottom. Just click on the Q&A chat box, go ahead and post your questions, and – as many of you who have been on our webinars before know – Anthony's going to come back on and sort through all the questions. And we're going to try to create a more extended time for questions. So go ahead and post them in, and we'll get to as many as we can. Post at any time, and we'll come back at the end and take care of it!

Okay. So, Elise, I know it's been a long and arduous year – with, essentially, the entire admissions landscape changing, and perhaps even turning on a dime. Can you share a little bit about some of the biggest changes that have taken place at BU – and if you want to get into admissions results at BU, and what are some of the adjustments that have happened? That'd be terrific.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Sure, absolutely. A couple of big changes in our review process, and also on our campus itself!

I'll start with campus, just because it's a little simpler. BU, this past year, has had a hybrid campus. We had a “Learn from Anywhere” program,  where if you did not want to come back to campus, you could learn virtually. But if you wanted to come to campus, you absolutely could. Our dorms were open, and our dining halls were open. We made a lot of accommodations. Testing was crazy – students were tested three times a week. And I think it really speaks to the resiliency of our community that we were able to function very well for an entire school year, being partly in person and partly virtual.

This coming fall we will be 100% back on campus. No virtual learning, except for a few small programs. And we expect to continue life as usual!

So that was our big campus change. But in terms of the application review process… I'm sure you all have heard this quite a bit at this point, but the fact that we went test-optional was a really big change. But more so for our students and our applicants than our actual review process!

I think, if you asked anyone on our team, we would say we loved going test-optional. And it didn't really change our review too much. It really gave us the freedom to focus on those personal qualities and characteristics that students are bringing to our campus, instead of really honing in on that test score!

When it came down to it, we were 100% test-optional – which means, if students decided to submit tests, they would be considered with their application. But if you decided not to submit tests… maybe you were nervous about going to a testing center. Maybe you couldn't get a testing date. I know, especially in California, that was very challenging. And maybe you took your test and you didn't want to send us your scores. That was not a problem for us. If you decided not to send scores, it did not impact the review of the application in any way, shape, or form.

I know students were very nervous about that this past year. So I want to be there to quell any fears – that if you decide not to submit tests, it will not impact you! Because we will be test-optional for next year as well, and we're still reevaluating into the future. Students who are rising seniors, we will be test-optional, but for younger students out there, you'll want to check back in with us about that.

So in the end, about 60% of students who applied to BU decided not to submit test scores. Which is about, personally, where I thought it would be. I think some of our other staff members maybe thought that number would be pretty different. But about 60% – and then, in our overall admitted class, 40% – of students did not submit test scores.

When we look at test scores, we look at the students who did submit test scores to our office. They also are the students, generally, who have very strong GPAs, are taking really challenging classes, and really pushing themselves outside the classroom. So we see a lot of those strong academic and personal qualities did coexist with test scores, sort of coincidentally, in our system.

Elton Lin: A pre-emptive strike, Elise.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: That’s how I took it.

Elton Lin: Yeah, I think what you're saying is that – because there are certainly some college advisors who are listening in, who are definitely paying attention to some universities having a higher admit rate for students who submit tests than those who submit without… But what I hear you saying is that, generally speaking, those who submit had submitted higher test scores, and the truth is that their profiles were already strong, and they're already taking strong courses and getting good grades. And it just coincided with their overall profile anyways.

I think the follow-up question is, essentially: what, really, is the value of testing? And you alluded to that the admission team was happy to not have testing. But even this past year, there have been people who've gone on record, including the Yale admissions director, and I believe Cornell as well, who said that they still feel like testing is an indicator for students’ long-term viability and success in college.

So my question back to you – maybe it's a little bit of an existential testing question for the office – but do you feel like it's still important?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: So there's a personal answer and there's a university answer for this…

Elton Lin: Okay, I appreciate that.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Personally, I would hope that we will move away from testing in general. What the university wants to see – which I totally understand – is just proof in the pudding. People say that your scores on standardized tests predict your success in your first year of college. We want to make sure that the students we've admitted this past year are successful when they come to BU. I expect that will be the case; we'll have to see.

The university is really driven on data; that's how we make decisions. And so, before we can make a long-term testing decision, we want to make sure that our students are being successful once they arrive on our campus. That's our number one goal. We would hate to admit a class of students who just couldn't keep up or weren't successful in the classroom. That's not fair to the students that we admit. So we will see the results of that, eventually, but we do need the data first.

Elton Lin: Got it. Understood. And then – I think this question came up with some of our other interviews – but with testing out of the review rubric, it almost seems like you might pay more attention to one other part of the profile. Which could be the transcript, or it could be extracurricular activities. But for you guys, it seemed like it didn't really change that much. Are you paying more attention to other parts of the profile?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah, that's a good question. When I review an application with our team, there are really two questions we have to ask ourselves. Number one: is the student going to be academically successful here? Number two: are they going to be involved and engaged in our community?

Now, the first question is the more important of the two, because if you're not academically successful, you really can't be engaged in our community in the right ways. When we answer that academic question, we're mostly looking primarily at the transcript for students. So GPAs, grades across all four years, and the rigor of coursework. Are you challenging yourself in high school? Are you showing us you're ready to move on to the challenging college-level curriculum?

So our review, and the weight of that academic portion, stayed the same. It really just meant that we didn't have to glance at the test score to confirm that information. That is really the only change for us. Other than that, there wasn't more weight put on one section or another, just having one area to look at instead of two.

Elton Lin: Got it. So, essentially, the percentage of impact on the review, with regards to the academic profile, is still about the same. But you're putting more weight on just the transcript, rather than splitting it between the transcript and test scores?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah.

Elton Lin: Got it. Fantastic. I think, especially for some of the parents and students who are current juniors right now, can you share a little bit more about what the admission process is like? Once a student submits an application and it lands on your desk, you said earlier that you're the first one to read. Can you share a little bit about the timeline of that application: where it goes?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah, sure. That's a good question. I'm not sure I've been asked that one before!

Essentially, once it arrives in our office, we start the review right away. To get really nitty-gritty, what we need to start that review is your transcript – because we want to start with that academic side. Once that's been received, we start to review.

And then, if you're still submitting – say we're before the January 1st deadline – if you're still submitting those letters of recommendation or extracurricular sheets or résumés, etc., we'll request that additional information from you. And then we'll complete the review once we have everything we need as part of your application.

Now the various items of the application that we look at. We've already talked a little bit about the transcript. That's obviously the academic portion. But, after that, those personal qualities that we're looking to find and learn more about come – a lot – through your essay. We're a common app and a coalition application school: you can use either to apply. But every student writes at least two essays. That personal statement tells me a lot of information about you!

I already see a question in the chat that's asking about interviews. We don't do interviews at BU. We had 75,000 applications this past year – we physically could not interview 75,000 students! It's just not something that we take advantage of. Which means that your personal statement is really the only opportunity that I get to hear about you in your own words. So I like to highlight the essay quite a bit. We want to learn about who you are as a person, where you're coming from, and where you're going.

The next essay is on our member page, and it asks what excites you about joining the BU community. Now there are sixty schools in the Boston area, so your essay should not be about the city of Boston. I can't say that enough – especially for students who are coming across the country. I read hundreds of California student essays who are excited about Boston – who want to root for the Red Sox, or who want to go to a cold climate. Every year I read a few essays that are like, “I just can't wait to live in the cold.” Boston is not the only cold area. It does not only snow on BU's campus. That is not a successful essay. We are looking for specifics!

I also get a few, every year, when the student has misinterpreted the question and they write all about themselves: what they can bring to our community. That's not what we're asking. What excites you about joining our community? We're looking to see that you've done your research on us. You should be writing a love letter to BU. We actually do get several love letters every year – which is entertaining, and a good way to think about it!

After essays, we look at letters of recommendation. We only require two: one from a counselor at your high school, and one from a teacher. Your teacher tells us about what you're like in the classroom environment: are you an active learner? Do you raise your hand? Are you great at group projects? Et cetera. Your counselor gives us a little bit more information on you within the school as an entire environment.

And then, the last thing that we look at for all students are extracurricular activities. Now we know that this year has been very different. All my extracurricular activities have been impacted! I know all of yours have too. So no need to be stressed out if you weren't able to play football this last year or your school clubs were canceled. We're totally understanding of that. And we're really just looking for well-rounded students who have interests outside the classroom. So if you work, if you volunteer, if you play a sport or an instrument, if you care for a family member after school hours… all of that looks great on your extracurricular sheet. There's nothing in particular that we're looking for.

That's kind of the review as a whole. Those are all the aspects of the application itself.

Elton Lin: Awesome. Let's break that down a little bit. Let me back up with regards to rec letters. What are you looking for in a good rec letter? Certainly a lot of students are thinking about which teachers to ask, and – you don't need to share ultra-specifics – but what are you looking for in a rec letter?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah, sure. So for students out there who are deciding who they're going to choose for their teacher, it does not need to be from junior or senior year. It's fine if you have a teacher who you really connected with sophomore year, while you were still in-person. That's perfectly fine.

We ask that students do choose a core academic teacher. If you're applying to a fine arts program, perhaps selecting an art teacher makes sense. But please no P.E. teachers or music teachers, if you're not applying to those programs.

Generally, we're looking for teachers who can really share quite a bit about you. It doesn't have to be someone in your major – we get that question a lot. If you're applying to our psych program, but you haven't been able to take a psych class, not a problem. Any other teacher that you've had in a core academic area sounds great.

Students have no influence over this, but generally we're looking for about a page in a letter of recommendation. Much longer than that is not going to be helpful. Your teachers will all say great things about you. Choose people where you have really had an impact on their class, or had a positive relationship with them. I would not recommend selecting the teacher to whom, maybe, you forgot to turn in homework several times in their class. It will likely be mentioned in the letter of recommendation! But, generally, they're very positive about each student.

Elton Lin: Sure. Have you read a rec letter where it's like, “Oh, this student really forgot to turn in their homework…”?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yes.

Elton Lin: That's a bad move. Not a good move on the student's part – that's for sure!

So what I hear you saying is ask a teacher who could, perhaps, tell a little bit more of a story, and perhaps get a little bit more personal in that rec letter, and maybe say things that are not on the transcript or on the résumé, right? Give a little bit more color.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah.

Elton Lin: Fantastic. What about extracurricular activities? I think there is a lot of, perhaps, obsessiveness about what to do and how to execute what to do. And I think you would agree that students should really just pursue what they're most interested in. But in relation to, potentially, what they might want to major in. Are you looking for activities that match up with that? What are you looking for with regards to an activity résumé?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah, sure. What I have to say for BU might be different for other schools out there, but at BU we really pride ourselves on our academic flexibility – your ability to move in the university, and change your major at any time. Which means that we're not looking for specific activities on your extracurricular sheet or in high school. You should do what you're passionate about.

Try new things. We always say, “Don't sign up for every single club in your senior year!” That might look a little different this year, though. Maybe the club has been canceled for the last year and a half, and you want to try some things out! We will be understanding of that, absolutely.

So really, do what you're passionate about. If you can seek leadership opportunities in one or two of those options, that's really great. We don't have required volunteer hours that we're looking for from students. We don't expect for every student to have a part-time job, or play varsity soccer. It's really up to you.

We do like to see that extracurricular sheet filled out. I think you get about ten spaces or so on the application. You don't need to do all ten, but if you have more involvements than one, I would list them out. Don't skimp in that area! I will say, too, another situation I see coming up a lot in extracurriculars is that students decide to put them on their résumé that they submit separately, but only list one or two items on the extracurricular sheet of the application. Now, the application itself is what we guarantee students that we will review for them. A résumé I may or may not have time to actually look at. So I would highly recommend filling out that extracurricular sheet, and submitting the résumé if that's something you want to do as well – but know that we're really paying attention more to that application itself.

Elton Lin: Got it. So, maybe a quick summary: make sure you complete the application fully. If you have more than several things, make sure that it is complete. And that is something that you actually review.

With regards to leadership, you mentioned trying to highlight that. Why is that something that you are looking for, specifically?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Sure. We're looking for leaders on our campus – plain and simple. We want to populate our campus with students who are movers and shakers.

That's not going to be every student – we know that. We are happy with that. Not every student is going to be president of their club or of their team; that is perfectly fine. But if you do have those opportunities, I would encourage you to seek them out.

Those are typically the students we're looking for – especially when we are reviewing for merit scholarships. We want to see students who have made an impact on their community in some way. Leadership is definitely not the only way of doing that, but it’s a pretty evident way of doing it.

Elton Lin: Got it. Fantastic.

Just to shift gears a little bit, before we open it up to questions, I know there are certainly a lot of students in the audience who are thinking about some form of pre-med. Or, especially in Silicon Valley, there are a lot of students who are going towards computer science or engineering. And there are certainly a lot of schools in the United States that are good places to study to do pre-med and engineering. Why might BU be a good place to do that?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Sure. I could talk about this for a long time – there are many.

Elton Lin: That's another webinar, at least!

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Part two.

Elton Lin: Yeah.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: There are many reasons why. I'll highlight a few.

In the Boston area, healthcare is actually our number two industry in the city, just after hospitality. We have eight area hospitals, I believe, including BU's own Boston Medical Center. So if you're a student at BU, you're automatically affiliated with a hospital in the greater Boston area.

In addition to that, if you're just interested in health care – maybe not quite pre-med or such – we have our own physical therapy center on campus. We're a Division I school, so you can work with our athletes. You’ll have connections to all these different aspects of the medical industry in general.

BU has a fabulous pre-med advising program. Nowadays we don't have majors in pre-med – we have an advisory track. But that means at BU – I mentioned our academic flexibility – you could be a major in the fine arts, you could be an engineering major, or you could be a communications major and still be on track to go to med school. In fact, one of our most popular pre-majors that students choose when they're on that track is biomedical engineering in our college of engineering. Which is arguably one of the strongest programs that we offer at BU.

And then we also have a seven-year accelerated medical program – which some of you might be interested in. We actually have one of the oldest seven-year programs in the country. So it’s very well-known. And it's guaranteed entry into our BU medical school. But I have to mention the caveat by saying that it is the most competitive program that we offer at the university.

We get about a thousand applications for it every year. We interview only a hundred of those students. And we admit only twenty to twenty-five. So it is very, very selective – and students who are not offered admission will not be reconsidered for any other programs at the university. You have to know that you're a competitive applicant. If you're not admitted, we will not be coming to BU – as a first-year student, at least.

Elton Lin: Wow. 2.5% admit rate! I always tell families who want to know more about B.S./M.D. programs that they're super competitive, and it's essentially like getting into Harvard. It's actually a more difficult admit rate than Harvard!

But it is a unique opportunity. And the direct admit into the med school is outstanding and fantastic. So I can understand how BU might be a very coveted place for that. Fantastic.

Let's talk a little bit… since I actually didn't know you were reviewing portfolios in the fine arts program too. There have got to be some students who are art majors, or some other creative major. Tell me what you're looking for in a portfolio.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Absolutely. I'm happy to talk about that.

Something that's really unique about BU is that our fine arts program is conservatory style. It's not a full conservatory. You will be taking classes in the liberal arts. You have the option to take electives across the university as a student.

And when it comes to the application process, it is 50% academic, 50% artistic. If you're looking at other schools, I recommend asking about that ratio. Many schools will say 80% artistic. If you're a strong artist, you’re in. It's not going to be a problem. That's not necessarily the case for us, because we have you take classes outside of the fine arts. We need to make sure that you can survive in our classrooms as well. So we do do the review on both sides.

Almost all of our programs require a portfolio or audition. Some require a pre-screen – especially for our musical instruments. Once you've submitted that information, the fine arts programs do the entire artistic review – and then our staff does the academic and application review. And then we come together and choose students who are strong in both of those areas.

But we also have plenty of minors in each one of those fine arts areas. We do music, theater, and visual arts. So if you're not entirely sure you want to major in the fine arts, I usually recommend students choose a different major at the university – and then some programs do require you to submit a portfolio, but the risk is much lower, because if you don't pass your portfolio, you're still at BU and you can still take classes in the fine arts, without being denied from the university because maybe your portfolio isn't quite as strong as it needs to be.

Elton Lin: The next follow-up question is: if you're not applying into the fine arts, and you're submitting a portfolio, does it matter? Does it get reviewed?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: It does not.

Elton Lin: Okay. All right.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: It might be reviewed by accident, but that's clearly miscommunication! So, no. If you are not applying to the fine arts, I beg you, please do not submit a portfolio. It will not be reviewed for any kind of credit.

It's also not a way of applying to two different programs at the university. Every year we have a few students who say, “Oh, I was admitted to BU but I'm still waiting on my fine arts decision.” Just because you submit a portfolio does not mean that you are applying to the college of fine arts. You're actually applying to the place you indicated on your application itself.

Elton Lin: Got it.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: So please do not submit artistic work. If you really want to, it's always entertaining, but it will not help.

Elton Lin: It’s always entertaining. I like it – that's a good description!

I certainly have had families where the student has been playing piano for quite a few years, or violin or whatever it is, and they want to demonstrate their proficiency in that particular area. But if they're applying as an engineering major, and they're submitting a violin recording, that really doesn't tell you their likelihood of being successful in engineering, I would assume.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Correct.

Elton Lin: All right.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: And we're very familiar with the fine arts, and the levels of fine arts. So if you include on your extracurricular sheet that you're a level 10 pianist, I know what that means. I would love to hear your work, but again, I could not evaluate it in any terms. So don't spend your precious time in your senior year cultivating that information just for us.

Elton Lin: Got it. Fantastic. Thank you for clearing that up.

Maybe the last question before we go into Q&A: what is the type of student that you're looking for at BU? And what are the students that really thrive at BU?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah, this is a great question. Especially given the size of BU. We have 16,000 undergraduates. We are the fourth-largest private teaching and research institution in the country. We're definitely in that large category! How do you define our students? How do you define what we're looking for?

I think being a BU alum really helps me in answering this question – but if I had to describe them, I would say BU students are motivated and engaged. And well-rounded. “Well-rounded” is usually the term that I use. Our students are very attentive and active inside the classroom. They get strong grades. They want to do well in their courses.

But they also truly want to push themselves outside of that. They want to participate in research projects. They want to be leaders in our clubs and organizations. They want to change the world in some way. It's not just about academics, and it's not just about the extracurricular experience – it's really about both for our students.

And when I say “motivated and engaged,” it always brings me back to a question a mom asked me when I was a tour guide in school. She said, “Why are no students wearing pajama pants? It is the weirdest question…

Elton Lin: That's a weird question!

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah. And I was like, “Because this is not the type of school where students roll out of bed to go to class, and then roll back into bed.” Athletic sweatpants and yoga pants, sure – but not pajama pants! Our students are more engaged. They have a higher level of engagement than just attending class, because they have to.

And so, to answer your question, we're really looking at that on the application side as well. That's why we do the holistic review. That's why we see your grades, but also who you are as a person. To make sure that we are finding those well-rounded students.

Elton Lin: Got it. Yeah, I can imagine pajama pants in late January is also a challenge, potentially!

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yes.

Elton Lin: But thank you, Elise. Thank you so much.

Let's go to the questions. I'll invite Anthony back on, and I know that there are some questions already, but if you have questions, go ahead and post them in the Q&A box. We'll get through and share them with Elise.

Anthony Su: Awesome. Yeah, I really like that pajama pants question for college tours!

But I'll go back to the arts question earlier, because there is this family or student asking if a student can apply for multiple programs when they apply for BU. Thinking about whether they can be considered for a major in the arts, and some other program as well.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Sure. In the application process, regardless of what program you're applying to, you can only apply to one. You have to choose a school or college, and then a major within that program. Now our most popular incoming major is actually “undeclared,” so selecting a major just means selecting “undeclared” if you haven't quite decided yet.

There is no way to apply to two different programs at the university, except if you are applying to our college of general studies as a second choice option. Now, we can talk a lot more about general studies. It's a two-year liberal arts program. Students come in in January. They take general education classes for their first two years, declare their major at the end of the sophomore year, and move on to the major of their choice.

It is a second choice option at the university. But there's no way to apply to music performance and also journalism within the College of Communication, and be considered for both.

Can you study both after you arrive at the university? Absolutely. We have a dual degree program that allows for that. “Dual degree,” to us, means two separate bachelor's degrees earned within four years. So you'll work with your advisor, hopefully in your first year, to add on that second program.

But if you are interested in the fine arts, it's really your choice if you'd like to apply directly to fine arts and then select your second option upon arriving at BU, or vice versa. I would just encourage you to make sure that your fine arts portfolio or audition is strong, and that the teacher you've been working with encourages you to apply to fine arts programs.

Anthony Su: Got it. And then also, follow-up questions: how exactly does the major come into consideration, when you do apply for, say, engineering versus performing arts and things like that? Are there different committees that are evaluating it? How does that work?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: It's generally all the same – except for fine arts. I do lead the fine arts committee. It's a little bit of a different review process, because we're considering the artistic information in addition to the academic.

All other programs are reviewed by our entire board of admissions. There are no separate committees. And all majors are considered generally the same – with one exception: students applying to our math-based programs. So our Questrom School of Business, or our College of Engineering. They're only different because we are looking at the level of math that you have achieved at the high school level. Business and engineering students have to have pre-calculus on their transcript, but calculus is highly preferred. If you have not taken a calculus class, I would not necessarily recommend applying directly to engineering or business.

But other than that, majors like journalism and psychology are reviewed in exactly the same way.

Anthony Su: Got it.

A question about pre-health and that track: any distinction in regards to the application process? Or is this also something that happens all after you get there?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: No distinction in the application process. You can select that you're interested in our pre-med advisory program – or pre-law, or pre-vet, or pre-dental – on the application. I guess if I wanted to see that information, I could, but we don't use it in the review of your application. It just puts you on the right communication pathway if you are admitted.

Anthony Su: Awesome. I think that's the major questions – so, of course, if you guys have other questions there, feel free to put that in the chat or Q&A.

A question about the waitlist – probably a student still waiting to hear back. Any recommendations for the student that's still waiting to hear back, hoping to hear good news from BU?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Sure. At this time we have released our waitlist, so you should have heard from us at this point if you are a current senior. If not, I will provide you with my email address, and we can chat in the future.

Though if you're a rising senior, and just curious about how our waitlist works… For students that we put on the waitlist, what we recommend is that you accept that offer. If you do not accept your place in the waitlist, we will never reach out to you.

And then, if you want, you can send us a letter of continued interest. I know those are really hot on the admissions scene right now. It's not gonna have a huge impact for us, to be honest. You applied, and you accepted that spot in the waitlist – we know you're interested. But sometimes students just need to do that little extra thing to make them feel like they're working towards it, which we totally understand. So if you'd like to do that, that's great; you can send it into our general admissions inbox or directly to your regional representative, and we can add it to your file.

But those are all the recommended steps that we have for students.

Elton Lin: I know that this year is a little bit different, with regards to which students are actually coming. Do you sense that BU will be pulling more off the waitlist this year, as compared to other years, or not?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: We've already emailed out to students and said we are not taking anyone off.

Elton Lin: Oh, wow. Okay, so what you're saying is that the freshman class is secure at this point?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah. But it really depends on the year. Students often talk about trends, or the College Confidential world. It’s a real world; if you're not on it, I don't recommend it.

Elton Lin: Agreed.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: It is interesting to observe, as an insider, I guess. But trends really mean nothing for the waitlist. Every year we create a waitlist, and it fully depends on the year. I mean, it being a pandemic: who knew to expect that this year?

It is truly dependent – one year to the next, we could take, we could not take. The last couple years we have taken students off our waitlist. This year we did not. So there's really no rhyme or reason. It's hard to predict, and don't get yourself wrapped up into that storyline.

Anthony Su: All right. Let's come back to test-optional, because, of course, this is a hot topic. I guess parents are asking this specific question about their student’s score – where they did really well for reading and language but not as great for math. The numbers they're giving are 36 for reading and language, 30 for math. They're wondering: is it still worth it to consider submitting that? Or is it going to be an issue, potentially?

Also, are they overthinking it? Should they just go ahead? Some thoughts about that particular scenario?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah. So there are two answers to this question. I guess two questions asked here.

The first thing, I'll say, is that we actually don't look at the subject scores within tests. So as long as your overall score is strong, go ahead and submit it. We're not going to be looking at the fact that the math scores may be below our average.

Now, with that said, when looking at test scores and deciding if you want to submit them to us, please, please do look at our averages from the past year, and make your decision based off of those numbers. Those average numbers tell you that those were the competitive applicants, and they were offered admission. If your numbers fall below our average, do not submit those test scores, because we will use them in the review of your application.

It was heartbreaking to see a very small number of students – but maybe two or three I came across this year – who had an 1150. Which is significantly below our average. And also weaker academics, et cetera. But it's really much harder to advocate for those students when – had you not submitted test scores – we could have potentially talked about a positive outcome.

So, definitely, take a look. And I would say that for every school, not just for BU.

Anthony Su: So definitely think about using test-optional to your advantage.

To clarify from earlier: we were saying, I think, 60% of applicants did not submit tests. And then 40% of admits did not have tests, right? Just a question: was that a similar trend in ED? Or is there anything noticeable that you can share with us there as well?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Good question. I don't know the specific ED numbers off the top of my head. I don't think they're significantly different. If they were, I would know them!

So, no, I would say. They're probably pretty similar.

Anthony Su: Okay, got it.

Elton Lin: I remember this question coming up with some other admission officers that we interviewed, where, especially for more impacted majors or more competitive departments – if you're going to be applying into engineering – then it's definitely to your advantage to apply at the early round. Are there any of those kinds of specifics for BU, with regards to early decision?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Not necessarily. If you know, 100%, BU is the school for you, we highly recommend applying ED. The admit rate for early decision is higher than for regular decision. I would never walk around that number: it is true.

We had about five or six thousand students apply early decision, compared to seventy-ish thousand that applied for regular decision. And we enrolled just under 50% of our class from those five to six thousand students. So the pool is so much smaller, and we are really looking to enroll quite a big number in our class. It gives us a little bit more security, and we know that we're admitting students who truly want to be here.

Based on your major, I would say no. Doesn't matter. Your admissions chances are simply higher for applying early decision. There's not one major or another, I would say, to strongly advise ED versus RD.

Anthony Su: Got it. [Pause.] Sorry, this is the point in the conversation where all the themes are starting to break down, and I might just throw the questions that come through.

Elton Lin: There's not much filter going on with Anthony!

Anthony Su: I'm trying to group things, but it's all over the place!

But I'll ask this one, because I think people are eager to travel and learn more. Is the campus open for tours for future applicants, and things like that?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: That's a really good question. It's not currently open. Would I say, “Check our website in the next week or so?” Yes. We will be open at some point this summer; keep an eye out. We should have updates very soon.

We will ask, very strongly, that folks register for an event. If you don't register, I cannot guarantee that we will be able to provide any kind of formal programming for you.

Technically our campus is on the line of accepting visitors or not. At this moment in time, if you flew to Boston tomorrow, could you walk around our campus? Absolutely. We'd ask that you wear a mask while you're on campus, and not enter any of the buildings.

But formal programming should be coming up in the next couple weeks or so.

Anthony Su: So, definitely, you can still travel there. Hopefully tours or other programs come back soon.

Let's see: a question about – I think in general – community college courses. This mom was asking a question about taking community college courses over the summer. I think they're just wondering if that's a good idea, and how that is evaluated compared to courses at the high school level.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: An important thing to keep in mind about community college classes: if you're looking to get them for credit, versus if you're just trying to look like you're taking challenging classes on the application, there is a bit of a difference. If you're looking to get credit for them: if they count towards your high school graduation, we cannot accept them for credit towards your college graduation.

Now, if you want to take them to get ahead, or just to show us you're taking challenging classes, that's great. Not a problem. Go for it. You'll want to submit that transcript alongside your application. It's not something I generally go digging for if the student doesn't send to us. I assume they took classes for fun, and I'm not going to request it from you. I’ll just move on with the review of your application.

I will say, for students who are deciding between taking, like, calc 1 at De Anza, versus AP calc at their high school, we'd prefer to see the AP calc. It's not that strong of a preference, but we know what AP calc means. We know the class you took. We know that you're likely taking the AP exam. If you take the AP exam and get a four or five, we can give you credit for it. Whereas we don't generally know what the De Anza calc class means. It’s a challenging-level class, but typically we give a little bit more weight to the high school course.

Now if you're taking linear algebra or multivariable calculus, great. Love to see that. But if a similar class is offered at your high school, we would prefer you to take the high school class at a higher level or AP level.

Anthony Su: Got it. So, similarly, if your high school did not have AP art history, but you could take that at the community college, that would be a good alternative?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Exactly.

Elton Lin: Maybe this is a little bit more of a granular question with regards to that, but if somebody were to take a community college class like calc 1, as opposed to AP calc, are you asking yourself the question of, “Why is that student doing that?” Or is something coming up in your thought process?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: That definitely does occur to me. I'd say that's a great space, if the student thinks of it to use the “additional information” portion of the application. I love when students use that space effectively. There is effective use of it, and there is…

Elton Lin: Ineffectiveness.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah.

But maybe your scheduling just didn't work out. You wanted to take AP French, and it was taught at the exact same time as AP calc, so you did calc through De Anza. Just write that – two or three sentences in the “additional information” portion of the application. That's a great use of that space.

If you have grades that have been affected because of a family situation, or really anything, tell us in “additional information.” We don't need to see an entirely new writing sample in “additional information.” We are not evaluating the writing in that portion. Again, feel free to write a sentence or two.

It's also not the place to over-share. I've had students really over-share in that space: about their personal backgrounds that have very little impact on the application itself. It can be helpful context, but I would definitely clear that space by a counselor or an English teacher or someone, just to make sure that you're using it in the right way.

Anthony Su: Yeah, that's a good tip: just to make sure you're not putting too much out there.

So let's continue this conversation with essays. There was one student asking about a time when they were seeking a leadership position, and they weren't able to get it, but learned from that experience. Their question was: do you think that'd be a helpful kind of story to highlight? But also in general, as an overarching process, what would you recommend students do when starting to think about this essay process? A lot of juniors are probably thinking about it soon!

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Absolutely. The essay is a place I like to talk a lot about. I could lead a whole other seminar on essays!

But I think it's important to know that 95% percent of essays are good essays that are going to get you into college. It's very few that we read that we're like, “Oof, bad! It's gonna impact your application.” Usually they're the essays that are only half a paragraph. That's not an essay! We're looking for you to use the whole space.

However, when thinking about your essay, I generally advise students to think of themselves in the context of their high school, of their generation, or of their community, and say, “Can anyone else write this essay in the way that I'm writing it?” A few years back, a really popular essay topic was learning to drive. You had no independence; you learned to drive; now you can drive by yourself to go pick up doughnuts on Saturday. It's generally the same story that every sixteen-year-old in the context of the United States can write. Now, if you write it from the perspective of your driving instructor, maybe that's a little different! But I think it’s important to think about those things. Is this essay really about you as a person, or is it about someone who attends your high school or someone in your generation?

One of my favorite essays I've ever read was about a student who was terrible at applying eyeliner. And it was her goal to learn how to apply eyeliner. She told a couple other tangential stories about who she was as a person, and it was fascinating! I loved it.

So it doesn't have to be this monumental thing. We read a lot of essays that are very similar: winning the big game in a sport, or getting injured during a big game. Learning to drive. The most common hook/intro sentence is: “The first time I stepped on stage…” For students who are in the performing arts, it's a very common one.

If you write essays in these themes, you will not be denied from college by any means; it's just not going to stand out in our pool. Like I said, 95% of essays are strong essays. I'd say 5% are standout essays. So it's a pretty small number!

If you write a good essay that is well-written, I've learned a little bit about you. Move on. That's going to be a good essay; it's going to get you into college. Don't spend months and months and months and months stressing out about the topic or the writing. Have a teacher or someone you love look over it, and you'll be good to go.

Elton Lin: Are you implying that the essay is, in your perspective, maybe not the most critical part of the application, and doesn't overcome deficiencies in the academics or in other parts? How important is the essay?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: I would argue that the personal statement can tell me a lot; generally it doesn't. Which is fine. Academics, yes, are the more important piece.

Now I'll throw in the exception of the “Why BU?” essay. Why are you applying to our school? That is an essay that would potentially make me want to go to bat for a student. If you've really written a really strong essay, and you know your details.

I know there was a question in the chat about what exactly we're looking for. In that essay, we're really just looking for the fact that you've done your research. You know why you want to come to BU. You haven't just searched us online one time. And, honestly, if you did, that'll write you a fine essay. It's just not going to be the strongest one in our pool.

But there are a handful of essays every year where I'm like, “Oh, that kid really wants to come here! And I know that just from reading these 250 words. Let me see if there's anything I can do to bump up their opportunity.”

Now that could happen in the personal statement too. It's just a longer essay: a little bit more to read and more to get to know. The “Why BU?” tends to be a little faster for me to say, “yep that's what we’re looking for!”

Elton Lin: What I take from what you're saying is that you are really looking for the student to say, “BU is really where I want to be. I've done my research; I really feel like it's a great fit.” And you're looking for clues that that student is really intent on coming.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yes, absolutely.

Anthony Su: Just a few minutes left… There is a question about, “Hey, are there going to be continuing virtual information sessions, or where else can I learn more about BU?” Things like that. What would you recommend students do to potentially try to figure out how they want to answer that “Why us?” question, or learn more about the campus?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: I love this question. Thank you for asking it!

Continue to attend events like this. I think it's the best way to connect, personally. And, like I said, we're gonna be opening up campus eventually this summer. If you're not able to fly out to campus – if you don't want to; it's a long way away! – we will be continuing virtual programming. I think likely forever. We've really enjoyed what we've been able to do virtually, and we think it's a great way to reach families who are a little bit further away.

So, yes, you can continue to sign up for virtual information sessions. And who's to say about travel this fall, but we will be connecting with students in some way or another, whether it's virtual or in-person. If I – or my colleague Matt, who actually sees a little bit more of the peninsula area of the Bay Area – if either of us are coming to your high schools or scheduling a virtual visit, come to those visits if you can.

And then the last recommendation I have is really to connect with us. We love when you ask us questions. When you send us emails, we are there to connect with you, and to really demystify the college process. So, please, reach out!

I've used that phrase a lot tonight, but if you can, search your answers on Google. Google is your best friend. If you're looking for more intrinsic questions or answers about the experience, or something you can't find online, I'm happy to answer those for you, and to connect you with a current student who might be able to tell you a little bit more from that perspective: what campus looks like and how things work.

Elton Lin: I can imagine you get a lot of emails!

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Also, our L.A. representative has left for a different opportunity this fall, so I've also been covering the L.A. area. So I get a lot of emails!

Elton Lin: Fair enough.

Anthony Su: Got it. Use Google when you can; email Elise if you have something else that can't be found through Google.

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yes, please.

Anthony Su: I want to finish it off on… let's do this one last one. And, again, GPA, test scores… so much of it is in flux with test-blind and test-optional.

This family was wondering, what if there's an illness that really hurts the GPA for one semester? And then there's a better test score – does that help? And also just giving you the opportunity: what will testing look like in the future for BU? Is test-optional going to be the norm from now on? Is anyone talking about test-blind?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: We're probably talking about all of those things, to be honest. What our decisions will be is really up to BU's president. President Brown will have to let us know his thoughts and opinions eventually. Would I love to see BU being fully test-blind? Absolutely. But I'm not quite the president of the university, so I can't make that decision.

But it's actually a really good scenario that was brought up. If, maybe, grades or academics are slightly weaker, especially due to unforeseen circumstances, but test scores fall within our middle 50% range, I would say yeah, go ahead and submit them. And include, in the “additional information” portion, why you've done that – saying, “Here's why my grades suffered. There was a health issue going on.” No need to go into explicit detail, but just acknowledging it for us is really helpful, and saying, “I'm hoping that my test scores can speak to my academic abilities.” I think it's a fine scenario for submitting test scores and having them have a little bit more weight in our review.

Anthony Su: Great.

Elton Lin: Anything else, Anthony?

Anthony Su: I think we can wrap up there. Apologies if I couldn't get to the last few questions. But I'm sure Elise is happy to answer a couple of these, if you'd like to reach out to her.

Elton Lin: All right. Thank you so much, Elise. Are you okay with leaving your email in the chat box for everybody?

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Yeah. And I mentioned my colleague Matt – so if you attend a high school outside of my region, I will just connect you with whoever it is best for you to speak to.

Elton Lin: Absolutely. So thank you so much, Elise. Really appreciate your time. One of the comments in the chat was, “This has definitely been one of the most informative admission officer presentations,” so you really gave us a lot to think about – a lot of great insight into the admissions process! So thank you so much. Really appreciate your time.

And just to share with everybody who's still here: we do have Northeastern – not to pit Boston universities against each other, sorry Elise! – Northeastern coming on. Santa Clara as well. Just opportunities for families to hear directly from the admissions office.

But most certainly it's been a pleasure. We really enjoyed having Matthew on last year, and have definitely enjoyed having you on this year as well. So thank you so much, Elise! Definitely reach out to her.

Appreciate everyone's time tonight, so good night. Thank you so much. Look forward to seeing you guys next time.

Anthony Su: Thanks everyone!

Elise Alexandra Fisher: Thank you.

Elton Lin: Okay. All right. Bye.