Webinar Transcript: Navigating The Changing Standardized Testing Landscape

This webinar occurred on February 27, 2021 and featured Anthony Su, Katie Young, and Dayna Meyer. Some of the school policies and changes mentioned in the webinar may have been updated by the time you are reading this article. Please visit CollegeBoard, ACT, or contact the college you are interested in applying for the most up to date information. 

You can watch the full recording of the event here. 

Anthony Su: Hey everyone. I appreciate you joining us this morning. We're doing a couple more webinar sessions; they're usually Thursday and Saturday, but we're moving it to Wednesday and Saturday. And they're available on our website, so you can take a look there if you're looking at what topics we're gonna cover and things like that.

But definitely today, of course, we want to cover standardized testing and the things that have been changing there. I do want to preface that, of course, we're going to get to all the hot topics, so I'm going to ask you guys to please hold your questions. There's that Q&A bar, and you can typically put your questions there, but I'm going to ask you please hold them just for the first 15 or 20 minutes, just so we can get a quick overview of what it used to look like, and what happened most recently. We also want to preface other additional shifts that may occur, and the reasoning behind it; not just what changed.

I want to again appreciate Katie and Dayna for joining me today. Katie, do you want to introduce yourself? And then Dayna? Let us know a little bit about you guys.

Katie Young: Yeah, sure. Hi everyone my name is Katie Young and I am a consultant here at ILUMIN Education. I've been with the company for a couple of years, but I've been consulting since 2012. I graduated from USC with a degree in English.

And I like coffee. Good morning!

Anthony Su: Good morning!

Dayna Meyer: Nice. I like coffee too!

Hi everyone, my name is Dayna Meyer. I'm also a consultant with ILUMIN and have been doing the work since 2012 as well. My most recent degree is my PhD in education, from USC, like Katie. So looking at everything from admissions to diversity and inclusion across campuses. Thanks for being here with us today.

Anthony Su: Yeah, awesome. Okay! Of course, use the chat box if there is something, but again I will just ask for the first 15-20 minutes, just so we can also go through a quick overview. Because we want to start, not at the literal beginning, but let's start maybe within the past five to ten years, when testing had been relatively stable until March of last year.

So I want to ask this first: what did the testing pathway typically look like for students of the past five to ten years? What has been typical during that time?

Katie Young: You're right, there've been minor changes over time but the basics have been pretty much the same since I started this work. Generally colleges are looking at three big tests.

They were looking, first, at the SAT or ACT. Those used to – I guess we'll get into it – but they included a reading section, a math section, a writing section, and then for the ACT, additionally a “science” section that's more of a quantitative reasoning section. But other than that, the tests are covering pretty much the same material. They're just different lengths and different formats. And students can pick whichever one they wanted to do, and they would both be accepted equally by all colleges. So the SAT or ACT was the big milestone benchmark. Everybody had to take that test at some point.

Beyond the SAT or ACT there were SAT subject tests, which many colleges would require for subject matter competency on top of just the basic knowledge that’s covered on the SAT and ACT. We would generally recommend that, for the SAT/ACT, the students be above about algebra II – and then, for example, the SAT subject test in math will cover up through pre-calculus. For the SAT reading/writing section, usually we want students to be around an English 10 level, but for the subject test it's more like the AP literature material. So the SAT subject tests just go a little bit further. And those were required by some colleges, and recommended by some colleges, so we generally would encourage students to take two.

And then the AP exams. So AP exams correspond to AP coursework in high school and are traditionally taken at the end of the year in May to cover the content of the whole class. And AP exams are not really an admissions test. They don't have anything to do with your admissibility to a college. But what they will do is sort of fill in some gaps. Maybe your grades aren't as good, but you've proven that you can master the subject. Maybe your SAT subject test scores weren't what you wanted them to be, but here comes your AP, and then AP scores also earn college credit – if you pass, of course!

So those are the big three exams that we were advising on and guiding students on, and that colleges were expecting to see – up until very recently.

Anthony Su: Yeah, so the SAT or ACT is that main test where basically every student had to take it. There are additional subject tests to show excellence in particular subjects, and then APs – taking that tough course, and making sure that you can get some college credit if you score well on those.

And definitely, I think, with COVID it is an acceleration of a change to this traditional structure of these three tests, right? So, Dayna, what are some things that have changed about those main three tests recently?

Dayna Meyer: Yeah, let's get into that, because COVID has changed a lot of things.

Research has shown that grade point averages are a much better predictor at college success than standardized tests. And, actually, this is at the undergraduate and graduate level.

Just a little story time: so when I was doing my PhD, I worked with educational psychologists, and they study all of these kinds of phenomena. One of the criteria for the graduate level – if you're not doing the MCAT or LSAT – is you take something called the GRE, which is similar to the SAT/ACT. The educational psychologist told me that when she went to pick her grad students to work with each year, she wouldn't take the students who had the 99th percentile in the GRE. And I said, “Why not? Doesn't that translate to doing good work for you?” She said, “Actually, no. It's the students in maybe the 75th percentile rank, and have pretty good GPAs, that she'd want to work with. Because there's room for improvement.

And just there's so much research that supports this. It does go against that traditional notion that the SAT or ACT is an objective predictor of a student's ability. But it's being shown in academic research that that's not actually true. Actually, there’s a good stat that says that GPAs were found to be five times stronger than ACT scores at predicting graduation rates – which I find completely fascinating, since you’d think that test scores easily translate, or at least that's the myth that's been generated around the culture of going to college. So it really does go against that notion that standardized testing is a perfect predictor.

So, basically, colleges are using more of something like a GPA to predict whether a student will finish and go on to do well in their graduate school or career. And everything's in context anyway. So there's no such thing as an objective evaluation. It's a holistic review of the student's ability, especially in the private schools.

And COVID really made us have to start considering these changes, since most tests were canceled or pushed back. Or there have just been so many changes that admissions offices have had to adapt to quickly. They're having to find different metrics to evaluate a student's ability, and eligibility to get into school, now. So there have been lots of different changes.

Anthony Su: Yeah, and I think we're touching on a few things. There are these inherent flaws to standardized tests, like it's four hours on a weekend morning. Is that truly an objective measure of the student’s skill or their ability to learn? GPA has been a little bit more consistent there.

And then, at the same time, colleges don't just take your number as a GPA and that's it. Of course they do a little bit of recalculating. They look at those tests, or they look at the courses that you took. They look at the context of your school. They have to have a way to make that GPA be more than just a number in that evaluation process, right?

Katie Young: One of the things I always tell my students when they're like, “What do I prioritize?” is that your grade shows your ability to succeed over a long period of time against many challenges. Pulling yourself up, pulling yourself down, working with a group, working by yourself, managing a long project, succeeding on a quiz… it just shows a lot of different capabilities that you have. Whereas with a test you could just walk in and get lucky on one day of your life! I’ve had students whose best practice test they ever took was way down here, and then, when they went in for the day, they were just like,”Well, how did I do that?” It's really important to recognize the reasons why GPA is a better predictor, even though everybody takes the same test. Your GPA within the context of your school still shows how well you can perform, compared to other people.

Anthony Su: Yeah, and again, in the past five years schools had been talking about moving away from test scores. I think COVID has effectively said, “Yeah, you have to, because no one can take a test now.” Everyone was like, “Okay, test optional I guess.”

But definitely, I think, with the thought of how people are looking at this process as a whole, I think we do want to split it into: how does the test provider, or how do the ACT and SAT make the change, and also, how do the colleges make a change in regards to how they see that?

So let's start with this: what are the test providers doing to adapt to this change?

Katie Young: There have been changes announced from Collegeboard, which runs the SAT and the AP exams, as well as from ACT, which runs the ACT. We've already seen a few of these be implemented. There are more test dates being offered. Especially with the ACT. There's more “school day testing,” meaning they're offering the test on school campuses during school days to make them more accessible. That's where schools are open, obviously.

And computer-based testing. Right now only for the AP exams; there are very few cases where it's accessible for the regular Joe Schmo student to be able to take an SAT or ACT online at this point. But ACT has announced that they are working on it. And that's a change that's not just going to be for COVID but for the long term, just for making testing more accessible.

They've eliminated the SAT writing section. Already it wasn't in a lot of schools’ rotations, and it was optional at most colleges, or not looked at. The UCs were one of the holdouts who were still using the writing section, and now they've dropped it. Collegeboard was like, “All right, we'll just let it go.” So the SAT writing is gone.

Elimination of the SAT subject tests has happened recently. A reason for that partly being accessibility. Accessibility during COVID, and then also accessibility given that certain communities are not able to spend the extra money to take the extra test, or maybe don't have the access to preparation resources. It just seemed like an unfair burden on students to require them to take that additional test. So, again, those were going more and more and more optional, and now they're gone as well. So the SAT is the main test now from Collegeboard, with just the reading and writing section.

ACT, before the pandemic, was also thinking about another change to make testing a little bit easier, which was you could retake individual sections of the ACT instead of having to retake the entire ACT. So reading, writing, science, math, all those sections… if you just do badly on math, you can go back and do math. But they had to put a pause on that, because they want to make sure that people who've never taken the test before have primary access to the testing dates and facilities. So that's just pushed back.

And what that'll do is open the door for ACT to use superscoring, which I can talk about for just one second. It's basically taking the best scores from each section across multiple test dates. So maybe my December reading section plus my January math section combined is better than my December test as a whole, and then they'll use that number – the superscore – to give me the benefit of the doubt. The SAT has been doing that for a while; this is ACT trying to hop on board with that.

Some of those changes were COVID-relevant, COVID-adjacent. Some of them were already in the pipeline. ACT and the SAT offer email lists and email subscriptions that you can hop on for the latest news and updates with what their changes are. I think it's also good to be on those to find out when the upcoming test dates are, and the procedures for signing up.

So if you are kind of iffy on what are your options at this point, I would say just hit up the newsletter and check out the website.

Anthony Su: So it's effectively like they're getting rid of redundant tests or things that weren't as helpful, which include subject tests and the writing sections of the SAT and ACT.

We do see this shift towards computer-based testing or online testing, especially with APs. APs were taken at home in a remote way of taking it. For ACT, actually, we recently had a blog, so I'm just putting that in our chat. They also are doing computer-based testing, but it's not online, which just meant that – and I think they implemented this mostly internationally, or outside the U.S. – the student would go to a testing facility, and it's just instead of pencil and paper, it's just all on the computer. And of course they're trying to roll that out to, hopefully in the future, a remote way of testing for many students.

So, of course, we see that from the side of the test providers. But how are universities tackling this in regards to their requirements, exceptions, and things like that. Dayna, do you want to elaborate?

Dayne Meyer: Yes, definitely. Let's go into that. I know there are some questions trickling in, but first let's go over policy, and see what the policy was, and then track the changes.

The UC policy – and UCs are important because they actually set a ripple effect for a lot of other universities across the nation. So that's why we're starting with this, because what we see is that when the UCs adopt a trend, it starts fanning across the nation. So if you're wondering why we're not talking about private schools, it's because there are similar adaptations happening. Each institution is doing its own thing, but let's start with the UCs, since we're located here in California.

UC policy was the SAT or ACT with writing. And there was a strong emphasis on taking SAT subject tests, so you have that little leading edge you could show that you are doing well in a certain subject matter. The AP exams are kind of replacing that for this year. AP exams are used for, again, what Katie was saying, college credit and A through G fulfillment. Not necessarily admissions. But it shows the rigor of your coursework as you go throughout your high school career and things of that nature, and it shows that you're challenging yourself.

So that was the policy, right? In early 2020, with pandemic changes to testing, the UC plan was to change the testing policy to be test-optional for students applying in 2021 or 2022 including the ap exam. So that's this admissions cycle – and we're just getting the data about as it finishes. And then next year’s cycle.

And then test-blind. Let's just go over that. Test-optional means you can send your scores if you have them, and test-blind is when you don't send any scores. It’s not accepting any standardized scores. So UC policy is to be test-blind for students applying in 2023 and 2024, including AP exams. Basically for the students who are sophomores and freshmen right now – if there are any parents in the room for freshmen or sophomores – that's what the UC policy is going towards.

But on the back-end side, the UCs had a five-year plan anyways to trickle into going test-blind. So this, like Anthony was saying, it's just speeding up the process. And they've just had to adapt their master plan to go a little bit quicker.

The elimination of the use of SAT and ACT writing tests on applications is effective immediately, which Katie was saying. Then there’s the elimination of SAT and ACT requirements by 2025 in general. That's them speeding up their process even though they were on that track already.

And then the UCs are developing a new, independent standardized test for the UC system – which we haven't had access to, and which I'm pretty sure they're creating as we speak! It'll have to go through multiple cycles of review, and we probably won't see anything on it for some time. But we'll keep you posted.

And then, mid 2020, there was a court ruling that said that during COVID, since the accessibility to the SAT and ACT was difficult, they eliminated it as a factor for admission. Which was unprecedented. It left the director of student admissions at, like, USC being, “Okay, so what do we do in lieu of that testing score?” And you saw things like an extra essay being put onto some applications.

That's where the personal narratives and college essays have become very important. They always have been important, but especially this cycle and next cycle. We have plenty of resources on writing the college essay and things like that, so if you want stuff on that just let us know.

The test was still used to award credit as per UC policy, but it was eliminated as a factor for admission. Which means if a student sent in their scores and a student didn't send in a score, they'd have to be considered equally. But we encouraged our students to continue sending their scores if they had them, if it would speak to their academic achievement in some area. Just because we're in flux with that testing policy.

Katie Young: Real quick, sorry. I just saw a lot of Q&A come through. I think that was a lot of information.

Dayna Meyer: It was!

Katie Young: Do you mind just recapping, for freshmen and sophomores, what should they be looking at? I saw like four questions go off in the chat.

Dayna Meyer: Absolutely. I like to be more conversational anyway, so this helps.

So basically think of it like this. For juniors and seniors right now, it's test-optional. For freshmen and sophomores, it will not be happening. That's for UCs; that's a policy for UCs.

I hope that we can keep going over it as well, too. And, honestly, if you schedule a consultation meeting with us, we can go over it again and again. I know this is all new information and, yeah, it’s not happening.

Anthony Su: Yeah, literally they will not look at your test if you take it, to clarify.

Dayna Meyer: Yeah, it’s what they call test-blind, which means they will not be able to consider the test as part of admissions. So they're blind to the test. They cannot consider it as a factor for admissions. They're calling it “the great equalizer” because now nobody is able to have that.

Now what that looks like for the private schools is to be determined, because we're talking about UC policy right now. And I'm also going to get into the CSU policy, which is the California State University system, which is pretty extensive as well.

The CSUs have never used test scores for students with a GPA of 3.0 and above for admission. But when it's an impacted major, they have used it to calculate eligibility. Especially at places like Cal State Long Beach that have a lot of good programs. They even have an essay sometimes. So it’s pretty impacted.

But the SAT subject tests were not considered as part of that process. Neither was the writing section. And AP scores weren't considered either. It was very much just GPA focused for the California State Universities.

But now, with the change – not that they were really doing standardized testing, like I was saying – but the CSU system will raise GPA and A through G requirements for impacted majors. So remember I just said that they were using the SAT or ACT for eligibility for impacted majors? Well now it's just going to lean more on GPA and A through G requirements, and that will not include test scores and evaluation.

And then for other colleges… Like I've been saying, we've been talking about UCs and CSUs. Not all colleges have announced their plan to go test-optional for more than a year due to continued challenges with things. But Anthony's going to take over and go through some schools that have announced their policy.

Anthony Su: Right. And, yeah, to reiterate, of course, a lot of this is in flux. Certain schools are doing this, others are doing that. But, long story short, it is the UCs and CSUs that have made this announcement of “We're going into test-blind.” Which is for current freshmen and current sophomores, when they're applying.

Of course for students who are applying this coming year, it is like, “Which schools are thinking about continuing this test-optional policy?” We anticipate that most schools will also go test optional this year. We're just waiting to see who has actually announced it.

So far, places like Boston University, Amherst College, Barnard College, and Caltech have all announced that they're going to continue this policy going forward. And most of the other schools are still trying to go through that process. I recommend that parents and students check the websites of the colleges on their list pretty frequently just to double-check, are they continuing this policy or not? Although we anticipate that this is going to continue going forward.

I think this is the main question with testing being de-emphasized or being removed from the application process entirely: what does it mean for the student profile going forward? Are they going to emphasize GPA a little bit more, or is it going to be more about your essays? Dayna, Katie, what do you guys think about that? What does that shift in testing mean for other items?

Katie Young: That's a good question. So this might relieve some families, and it might disappoint some families. I know that testing has always been controversial and tough to talk about, because there are some students who have a lot of test anxiety and don't want to take them, and then there's other students who are great test takers who are looking to their test score to really improve their profile. So I know there are going to be some hoorays and boos regardless of what we say.

But GPA has always been and will always be the most important factor. And not just GPA – I guess I should broaden that out – academic achievement. So essentially, what classes did you take? How hard were they? Within the context of your school, did you maximize all of your opportunities, especially around classes that are relevant to your major? We call that rigorousness, directed coursework.

And are you performing well? If you're taking all the APs in your school but you're getting C's, I don't really know what that says about you. Each student has to calibrate what fits for them and what works well. We want to see as many A's as possible, and we want to see you challenge yourself in areas where you know you want to study in college. So please focus on GPA.

One strategy for increasing GPA I think is maybe a little underutilized. When students go to high school they have a certain set of classes. The school has a lot of rules about what classes you can take and when. But there are ways around this. You can take extra courses at online high schools – which can be a little bit more expensive. Or you can take extra classes at your local community college for free. And what's great about the local community college is they’re college classes, so they're not every single day. They may be like two days a week. And especially right now, because they're all online and over Zoom or asynchronous, they’re pretty easy for students to keep up with. And even an intro-level community college class is going to be a weighted class, because it's still a college class. So like introduction to drawing, for example, would still be a weighted class in the student's GPA for the UCs and CSUs.

So if your student is really trying to make sure that their GPA is maximized, obviously still perform well within the context of your school but then elevate up and beyond with classes from community colleges. And if you're trying to decide what to do this summer, everything's at home online anyway. You're just gonna end up taking a class from Stanford and paying three thousand dollars for it when what you could do instead is take community college classes for free and help yourself in the GPA department.

So, my answer to “What are colleges looking at?” is your grades, your academics, what are you doing at school, and what are you doing outside of school to maximize your academic profile.

And if we're test-optional, the test score could still work in your favor. So what we're advising right now for our current juniors is to take the test and see how it goes. If we're looking at a college and the score that you have is on or above the averages of the school, then we can have a conversation about whether or not to send it. If you're below the average and it's optional, you're not helping yourself by sending the test score. It's a conversation, but the test score can still fill in some gaps. So if you do feel like your resume is struggling on the academic end, take the test. Try it.

And see if you can get in! I know a lot of my students have been struggling to get in for a test date in general. This is one of the big reasons why we're pretty sure that test is going to be optional for all colleges in the fall, because students are still having trouble registering. And we're registering for the May, June, August dates at this point. It's still tough.

If you aren't able to or you don't want to take the test, that's okay. There's still another test that can help you. And that's the AP exam. AP exams are going to be more relevant without subject tests. As we mentioned, subject tests were optional anyway, so APs were still being looked at in the admissions process, but the subject tests were in some cases an admissions factor. AP tests have never been an admissions factor. They're just more validation of your academic achievement and your testing ability.

AP scores are optional. You don't have to submit them. So if you didn't pass the test, maybe you don't tell them about it. If you get a three four or five – it's out of five, for those of you who aren't sure; you can get a one, a two, or three, or four, or five. Three is a passing score. Four is better. Five is you were pretty much perfect. So obviously any fours and fives you get, report. Any threes you get, you can weigh back and forth, because if you have a three in AP calculus and you're trying to be a mechanical engineer at Carnegie Mellon, maybe a three isn't your best foot forward. So you can make some calls about whether or not you want to report that test.

But APs are going to be helpful in filling in gaps on your resume. They’re still not going to be factors for admission. If you have an AP class, take the AP test. Choose later whether or not you would like to report that score.

Anthony Su: A quick clarification with APs. Even test-blind, the UCs will likely still take aps in regard. Again, it's not a factor in admissions, but it is like, “Hey, do I get to waive a particular course?” or things like that.

Katie Young: Yes. This past year, on the reader end, they were not able to see the test scores as part of the application evaluation. But there was a place to enter your test scores, and that's because AP scores are still being used as A through G requirement fulfillers.

Anthony Su: Got it.

Katie Young: So, basically, if I'm a student who came from another country, and I needed to catch up on my credits, if I took AP English literature, and I got a five on that test, that would exempt me from needing to take English 1, English 2, English 3… 

If you look on the UC website, on the admissions website you'll see “Validation”, where you can see which tests will get you out of which classes. We don't advise students to use this, because you still need credits to graduate from your high school and the AP doesn't help you with that, but what it does is fill in anything that's missing for you. So, again, our guess is that AP exams will still be utilized, but only as a factor for making sure students have multiple ways in which to fulfill their A through G requirements.

And the A through G requirements, by the way, are you have to take a certain number of classes in history, English, math, science, etc., in order to be eligible for admission.

Anthony Su: Perfect. Sorry, I cut you off. I don't know if you wanna… 

Katie Young: I just had a couple more things. I just wanted to say, again, and we said this – it's like, “Disclaimer! Disclaimer!” Everything is in flux. Everything is changing. Nobody knows what the heck is going on. So the best we can do is plan really far ahead.

So if you're a student who is a junior right now, I would be already thinking about what tests you're going to take and what you need to get in place. If you're a sophomore, I would already be thinking about what tests you need to take and what you need to get in place. Freshmen, take a break! You've got a little bit more time before you have to freak out about this.

But we'll know more about how the removal of tests from consideration and the test-optional policy has affected admissions results once we get our admissions results back. Those are coming out in March. [Crosses fingers.] Hopefully we'll see that admissions are pretty much the same without the test, so that there isn't a whole bunch of drama going on around the removal of the test.

Anthony Su: Right.

Katie Young: I don’t know. There are ups and downs to both of the ideas here. But we probably will have a webinar in the fall on trends in admissions around the removal of testing.

Anthony Su: Almost certainly. Schools are saying, “Hey, if you're applying test-optional, it won't impact whether or not you get in. So then, in theory, you should see the same number of people get in with regards to people who submitted test scores versus not, right? And I guess this is one of the things that we're anticipating might not be the case, or we just need to pay attention to that data as well. That's an additional factor or an additional question that we don't have the answer to yet, but we'll likely see that within the next six months.

Okay, perfect. Yeah, we’ve got a million things going on. Of course we're trying to make this as simple as possible, and we're gonna get to questions probably within the next ten minutes, so definitely feel free to leave your questions in the Q&A in chat.

But let's talk about action items. Because it’s like, “Okay, now we see what's going on. We kind of understand what's going on. When should I take the test? Should I even take the test?” As well as, “How do I prepare?” If I’m a freshman or sophomore knowing that the UCs are going to go test-blind for me. Or if I’m a junior and saying, “Is it still feasible if I’m close? Should I continue to work on that?”

Dayna, what would be your opinion there in regards to each of those student cases?

Dayna Meyer: Yeah, let's get into that. But I see a question from “David,” and I just want to clarify, again, for your junior – basically this year and next year – it's still test-optional. So the next admissions cycle after this one – the one coming up this fall – it's still test-optional for UCs. So we are still recommending that our students take the SAT or ACT – and we'll get into which one you should take – to ensure eligibility for all programs. Beyond admissions, it's for scholarships and potentially grants and things like that as well. So we're still encouraging all of our students to plan to take the test.

And we're just monitoring. Again, because we were talking so much about the UC and the CSU policies, we're still waiting on a lot of the private schools to come out with theirs. I'm sure they're going to come out with their testing policy after this admissions cycle when they have time to review everything. And like Katie said, we hope for the best, but it's in flux right now. We have to see how those admissions results compare to last year, and do a data analysis of that.

So we're still prepping our students to take it. We suggest that you take your first practice test – of both the SAT and ACT – after you finish algebra 2 and English 10. That's just so you have enough content to be able to reasonably do well in either of the exams.

For my students, and for a lot of us, we encourage our students to take a practice SAT and ACT. I encourage without studying, actually, because I find that students do better on one or the other just naturally. And then I suggest that, whatever the student does well on naturally, to take that energy and time and place it into one track instead of splitting your time between prepping for two totally different exams.

That's just my suggestion. If you're a parent and the student hasn't taken it, I would encourage them to take a practice one of each and then go on the preparatory route for whichever one. Based on your score and your goals, you choose the test. Like I said there are different ways of assessing which one is better for you, if that's a question you have.

Then you prepare and you map out when is the best time to take it. We usually say take a couple of tests, but, you know, right now schedule more since so many are being cancelled. One at the end of sophomore year and one at the beginning of junior year would be ideal, but, just based on timing with everything – like if it's canceled at the end of this year, and you're taking it, then we have to just adapt to what's happening in the context of the testing environment too.

So, yeah, that's some insight on that.

Katie Young: And what's good too is because the SAT subject tests are not taking up your SAT dates anymore, you really do have more flexibility with scheduling the test. Our advice would have been to get done with the main test by fall of junior year so that in spring of junior year you could take your subject test, but since that's not a concern anymore, you can move the timeline back. Actually you can take your SAT and ACT during senior year and still have it count for the majority of colleges. You have to look at each college, at what's the last date that they will accept, but generally all the way through December will work if you're applying regular decision.

So if you're a junior right now, and you're like, “Oh god, so I do need to take this?” you still have plenty of time. And, like we mentioned, ACT is opening up even more test dates. They already were opening in July, and I think they're going to do another one. They've been kind of “We're launching more!” but then they haven't actually done it, so i'm not actually sure. But I think they're going to need to respond to demand, and I think things will be opening up again, COVID-wise, in the summer and early fall. My guess is there are going to be a lot of extra test dates and sites available.

So if you don't see anything right now, just keep checking back. I've had students where at each meeting we take five minutes to log onto Collegeboard and try to register for a test, and it's like, “Oh, your nearest testing center is 300 miles away!” and you're like, “Okay, so maybe June's not gonna work.” So it has been a little bit perilous. Even if you're not sure if you're gonna take the test, go ahead and register for it, and if you need to cancel later, you know, stuff happens.

Anthony Su: Yeah, not a lot of great options. But definitely making sure you have a few different ways that you can take the test, or different dates and things like that.

Right. And, of course, what would be some introductory steps for preparation beyond taking practice tests and things like that? Any other additional study tips, or what you would recommend for the ACT and SAT, things like that?

Katie Young: Yeah. I really like Khan Academy. And I’m sure most people have heard of it. It’s a free online resource. They've actually partnered with Collegeboard, so the resources that they have are calibrated directly to help students with the SAT. ACT not so much, but Khan Academy is really great. You can take a practice test or a small practice test within Khan Academy, and it will tell you what you're bad at, and then give you exercises tailored to help you improve at those things. And you can tell it, “Okay, I want to take my test in June,” and it'll set you up on a schedule for how to do your prep. It's a really, really cool free resource.

There are always test prep centers. There are tons around: FLEX, Elite, whatever you want. You can buy a preparation book. I think those are especially helpful when it comes to the APs, because they summarize and distill a very large amount of information into a really small and manageable space. Khan Academy has AP prep as well. There are full practice tests that you can download and, in some cases, purchase.

Quizlet is actually really great, especially for AP tests. I don't know if you guys have heard of this. It's like an online platform for flash card decks. So instead of making your own index cards, they're online. If, like, I take AP art history and I take all my notes in Quizlet, then I can put it up there publicly, so somebody else can go grab my flash card deck and use it to study. It's been around for long enough that you should be able to find some practice decks that would work for you for the test.

And then, take the PSAT. The PSAT will be offered at your school. Again, because of COVID, there might be different circumstances or different dates than usual. The PSAT is a preliminary SAT. And, essentially, it'll be exactly like the regular test. You'll get a score to kind of calibrate where you're at. So for students who can't afford test prep resources, that's a really good chance to try it out in a testing environment and see what it's like.

The PSAT during your junior year will also make you eligible for something called the National Merit Scholarship Program, which is a really prestigious award. It's a long process, but the PSAT is the first step. for students who get to the end, it’s a really big reward. So if you don't take that test, you won't be eligible. But that test doesn't go anywhere with admissions, so no pressure on the PSAT. It's just a practice.

Anthony Su: Yeah, definitely. And again, all those different resources and different ways to tackle this. Of course you can reach out. There are a lot of free things available online that you should definitely try out first before necessarily signing up for a course or getting a tutor and things like that.

Cool. We'll be moving to Q&A. I definitely want to emphasize that, since I see a lot of questions about specific students or student cases, I do want to make sure that you can reach out to us for a free consultation as well. Go ahead and let us know if you want us to reach out to you, and this way we can debrief a little bit more about your specific student, instead of answering all the questions, since we can't get to all the questions today. Definitely indicate to us whether we can reach out to you or not.

I do want to start with this particular question, because I think we mentioned this in passing. “Hey, the UCs might come up with their own standardized tests!” We mentioned it and then we didn't touch base on it. So I want to clarify. I'll take a first stab at it, but Dayna, Katie, correct me if I'm wrong.

The UCs, in their statement saying that they're going test-optional and test-blind, mentioned interest in researching to create their own standardized tests. Whether or not they're going about actually doing it and actually making it is unsure yet. In their statement alone, they do recognize it's not helpful to students to add an additional test. Not only would students need to take the ACT and SAT, but they also need to take a UC test, and that's just even more burdensome. And they don't know if they can overcome the systemic issues that SAT and ACT were also having.

So it's in the flux situation. It might happen, it might not. Katie, Dayna, do you want to add anything to that?

Katie Young: I just wanted to say, if it does happen, it won't be till 2025 or later. So you only need to really worry about that if you have a young ’un.

Anthony Su: Yeah, it'll be a while away. So hopefully that's enough to not panic about it. But, definitely, additional variables.

Another question was, if a school doesn't take credit for the classes taken out of school, whether this is at a community college or things like that, does that help in regards to boosting my GPA or helping make my student look more competitive? What do you guys think there?

Dana Meyer: Yeah, I'll tackle this. So, yes. I would definitely suggest it. Even if your school doesn't calculate the extra community college classes into the GPA, what happens at a registrar office is that they have transcriptionists at every university, and they will. And it looks good that a student is taking a college-level course in high school in general. That's a really good workaround if your school only offers a certain number of AP classes and it's capped and things like that. And that you want to get more advanced coursework in an area, or you're interested in a subject, that's not offered at your school.

And then they will do the conversion of what that class would be in your GPA when you send the transcripts. Usually you have to send a transcript from the community college that your student took courses at, and from the high school – which your school counselor does at school. And then they take both of those and work their magic. Which is just an algorithm, essentially.

Anthony Su: So it is the A through G requirements that are a little bit more important, not necessarily what your high school specifically considers, right? And, again, a lot of the colleges will recalculate that particular GPA.

Katie Young: Yeah, the only reason you would need your high school to accept the credit and put it on your transcript would be if you're trying to advance within their course sequence. So, like, if you're trying to take AP bio, but you've only taken bio, and chemistry is a prerequisite for AP bio, and you want to take chemistry at the community college in order to move into AP bio at your school, your school might not be okay with that. They might be like, “Sure, you took the class, but we don't accept that credit. You need to take chemistry here.” So that would be the only reason why you would need to get your school's approval to put it on your transcript.

Otherwise, like Dayna said, you'll just send all the transcripts and they'll figure it out on the other end. With UC and Cal State, they specifically have a section for college classes, where you enter in each individual course. I just put a link to the A through G course list, where you can search your high school and your local community college to see which classes count for the UCs and Cal State. Make sure it's on that list before you sign up for it!

Anthony Su: Yeah, another one of those odd edge cases. If you're trying to advance within your school, then it is important to make sure that the school accepts that particular credit.

But another question, going back to, specifically, subject tests – because I think this is one of the things that were in flux. I'll put it up. It's how some students – some current juniors or current seniors – may have already taken a subject test in the past. Some of their classmates may not have been able to take the same subject test – whether they take the course a little bit later, or things like that. So, for that additional subject test, how much of an advantage is that for the specific student who has it compared to the student that doesn't?

Katie Young: It's probably a very small differentiator. It's optional to send. If you're proud of it, if it's a good score, include it on your resume. Again, it would probably only be really crucial if it's filling in some sort of a deficiency for you. So if you got C's in your AP bio class, but then you got an SAT subject test of 800 in bio! There are different ways to show your mastery of the knowledge.

So if you did well, send it. Is it gonna make the difference for you between admitted and not admitted? No. And is it gonna look bad on the person who didn't take it? No. Just another factor.

Anthony Su: Right, just an additional thing. But it's arguably going to be a tiny addition to the application.

Another thought on test-optional: do you think that this would lead to colleges publicizing a higher average score with the students that actually submit? That average is going to get higher and higher. And then it's, “Okay, I need to be within that top 50 to submit my score!” Do you guys want to comment on that, or what do you think that might lead to?

Dayna Meyer: Yeah, I'll take that. I did a lot of equity work in grad school. And equity is the idea of, how do you level a playing field that's inequitable based on socioeconomic status, race, access to resources, schools? Things like that.

So my instinct would be that they won't want to publish those results. Because, number one, it cannot be considered as a factor for admissions on its own. So it's highly unlikely that they publish something like that. It would just be more inequitable, and schools aren't really about that. I don't think they want to publicize that.

I think they will see higher test scores being submitted this application cycle and next application cycle, but I'm less likely thinking that they're going to publicize that. Especially with going test-blind. It's almost becoming a null factor in their admissions process. It's just something that we're seeing for these last couple of cycles. I don't think it will impact the average test score. Most likely, for tier-one schools, 1540 or above. That's pretty standard, test-score-wise.

So, yeah, that's a long answer to say that I don't think they're gonna publish those results openly since they're going more test-blind.

Katie Young: That's a really interesting point. I was just gonna say, if you want to calibrate your score and decide whether you're on or above the average, I would say a really good tool to use is Naviance, which is available through a lot of high schools. I don't know if every high school has it, but a lot of Bay Area high schools have it. I can put in the chat: Naviance.

If you have access to that, you can see a tool called the scattergrams. The scattergrams show you a scatter plot of students from your own high school, and what their scores were, and where they were accepted.

So you can go to Harvard's scattergram, and see that in 2020, two people got in and both of them had a score that was at this level. So you can calibrate yourself within your local context, rather than relying on the bigger numbers. That'll probably give you a more realistic expectation for what you need to aim for. I usually use those numbers when I'm helping students with their college list.

So if there is no national data published – which, I agree, probably they don't want to cause an uproar with that – Naviance might be a workaround if you want to strategize.

Anthony Su: I'm seeing a lot of questions around GPA. I think now families are saying, “Okay, GPA seems to be a little bit more important.” And I saw this comment that says, “Hey, it looks like it's going to be unfair for competitive schools in, say, Cupertino, Palo Alto, things like that. These schools are a lot harder.” And I got the completely opposite direction of, also, “Many private schools don't offer AP classes anymore, right?” Or, like, “How are they going to particularly consider me given there's no SAT II, given I might not be in a class to actually take the AP test?” And some students will have access to a ton of APs. How do you think colleges tackle this particular process of trying to make this, as Dayna was saying, a little bit more equitable? Or making that evaluation process a little bit more… 

Katie Young: I'll give a quick response, and then I'll let Dayna talk, because I think this is more of her wheelhouse. But the thing that everyone needs to remember is that you're evaluated in a local context. You're evaluated in the context of your high school, first and foremost. So when the reader reads your application, they have data that has come from your school counselor. And, also, they're assigned a region with certain high schools, so it's not like they're evaluating random schools. They've seen your school before. They know what's possible there.

So they're going to evaluate what you did within the context of what was available to you, and they don't have expectations for you to go above and beyond that. So if you're maximizing the resources at your school, you're in good shape. You don't have to worry about what kids at the school around the corner are doing.

If you need to stand out within your local context, that's where some of the strategy comes in with resume development and extra classes. Those are things we can talk about on an individual basis.

Dayna Meyer: Yeah, I think, Katie, you got it! That's exactly what I was going to say. It's all in context. It's really all in context. If there's a school that's more competitive in terms of how many APs you can take and things like that, it will never be compared to, like, an inner city school that has maybe a couple of APs offered. You really do have to remember that each admissions office is looking at the context of the school, its culture, the rigor of the courses in the school district, and things like that.

It’s all taken into consideration. So, unless your school looks exactly like a different school, it will not be weighed the same.

Anthony Su: Yes, I'm reiterating that. And again, there's a thought of, “Why do these colleges recalculate my GPA?” This is the point behind it. Students do come from different environments, and they want to make it equitable in that sense.

Let's take a look. We only have a few minutes left, so I do want to check here. One other student was also asking about SAT-optional. They were like, “Hey, I took the test. I didn't particularly like my score,” and they asked this question: “Is there any reason I would want to give them a score I don't particularly like?”

I guess this is also taking into consideration whether it's scholarships or things like that. Even if we do go optional in admissions. What do you think there?

Katie Young: It's a good question. I’m always like, “You worked hard for that score. Go ahead and send it!” That's always my instinct; it's like “You did it, you said it,” But, strategically, I kind of got beat down on that by the rest of the team, who are like, “Why are we sending a score that's not super impressive?”

I would say it's a school-by-school judgment. And you can look into the scholarship eligibility. But usually the scholarship application, and the honors program application, those things will be separate from the admissions process. So, usually, if a test score is required for some reason, it won't be something that you submit as part of the admissions process.

If if the school is test-optional, they would have to be on the same page with that policy, otherwise it wouldn’t be fair to set up students to think they don't need a score, and then be like, “Oh yeah, but if you wanted this scholarship you should have taken it.” That's not going to happen.

So I would look into the schools that you're thinking about, Google around, find what you think the averages are, and look at Naviance. If your score isn't really there, then don't worry about it.

If you think you had a really great practice test, and then on your official test you just didn't get there, why not keep fighting for a higher score? Especially if you're applying to private schools and top tier private schools, I do think it would help you at the end of the day to fight for a higher score.

Anthony Su: Additionally, also thinking about this new idea of taking college courses and things like that, what if a student has tried to take the college course but had to drop it due to workload or extracurriculars or other things, and received a W, but, effectively, they just had to drop the course. Is there anything that you can do in regards to improving that, or can you just choose not to send the transcript? What policies are there?

Dayna Meyer: Yeah. You don't have to send the score from a community college. But I've had instances, where I'm working with undergraduates actually, who are trying to get into grad school, and then they're asked for all of the college classes you've ever taken. And so sometimes I've seen it come back to play a role later on, too.

But, generally speaking, I only encourage my students to get involved with taking a community college class if they can complete it. Don't take too many at one time! Really make sure you can commit to it. Because it should help your profile, not work against it.

So that's just a little word of caution. It has the potential to do wonders for your GPA if you had a rough semester, but you don't want to get involved with that and then have it impact you later in different ways. That's personally what I've seen, but, Katie, you might have more experiences in different ways with that.

Katie Young: Yeah, I was gonna say, if you're already in the situation where you have a W on your transcript, I guess there are two ways to go about it. If you just have that one class and it's a withdrawal, I would probably just hide it, even though I know that's probably not a good idea in the long term, from what Dayna said.

The other option would be if you do have a good reason why you had to withdraw, like somebody got sick, you had a family obligation, or your schedule got too complicated and it's just a W. You can still submit the transcript and then use the “additional information” section to explain what happened. They'll take your word for it. They do read those sections; they're there for a reason. So if you say, “I started the class, and then my dad got sick and I had to stay home and take care of him, and that's why there's a W. That doesn't speak for my whole performance. I really wanted to take the class.” It should be okay. it shouldn't really affect you. If it’s like a C or a D, I would be more inclined to hide it.

Anthony Su: So, yeah, there is some element of change there in regards to that.

Last quick question, also about, again, grades and recalculating and things like that. The question is: “Is it true that UCs only look at grade 10 and grade 11 grades in your GPA?”

I think this is another question on how these schools are all recalculating different things. One private might look at ninth and through twelfth. Others might look at these and weigh them more.

Any other kind of additional context, Katie, Dayna, that you want to add there?

Katie Young: So, yeah, it's true for the UCs. They're going to see all four years of what classes you take. They're gonna ask you to report all your classes and all your grades. But when they actually do the GPA, they kind of see ninth grade as a buffer year. They don't really judge you too hard on what happened to you during ninth grade – because a lot of people kind of fall flat on their faces in ninth grade once they get to high school!

So 10th grade and 11th grade are the ones that go into the actual calculation of the GPA. And that includes summer classes. So any between 9 and 10, 10 and 11, and 11 and 12 are also included in that calculation.

And they're going to recalculate it because they do a weighted GPA, they only count eight semesters of honors and APs, and they only use A through G classes. So they just have all these super specific rules that really are not applicable to other colleges.

Most other colleges are gonna have their own systems for how to judge things. Some of them will just remove things like PE classes. Some of them will take your whole transcript, whatever your high school reported, and have some sort of algorithm. I don't know how computers work, but they try to level it out so they can judge everybody against each other in like a fair way.

But, yeah, I think always 11th grade is the most important year. Try to excel in terms of your rigor and your grades! I know, like, so easy, right? But just try your best in 11th grade.

And then for senior year, I think a lot of people have this impression that it doesn't matter. It does matter what classes you choose to take, for sure. They want to see that you're still challenging yourself, and then also your first semester grades will be seen by most colleges, and even by UCs if you are waitlisted. So keep trying.

Anthony Su: Yeah, keep trying. That's all we can do!

Definitely, again, I really appreciate everyone joining us. Katie, Dayna, appreciate your time to give us some insight in regards to the chaotic environment of testing, and all things that are changing right now!

Of course, again, please reach out to us for a free consultation. I also just linked our link for the future webinars that we're going to be doing, and the next events that are coming out. We're going to be hosting quite a few for the spring, so definitely go and sign up, and we can hopefully see you guys next time.

All right, thanks everyone for joining us. Thank you Dayna. Thank you Katie.

Everyone: Thanks!

Anthony Su: See you guys. Bye!